My thinking was as above, flat the 3bet, fold to any further raise from the original raiser utg and then get away from it on the flop if no J comes. As you’ll see when I post the later streets, my problems arise from not being able to get away from the innocuous looking flop fkcoolers mentions.

I’ve discussed this innitial flat with a friend and he said to me, if I’m purely set mining would I do it with 22? So would you do it with deuces? I wouldn’t and if anything they might be better to do it with because there’s no chance you’ll get in further trouble with them if you miss your set.

Think flatting is fine, I prob would flat 22+ here,
22-JJ for set value, KK-AA because i want to set up a squeeze spot for UTG to 4bet as that range should be wider than his 5bet range. i guess my 4bet range is QQ, AK i guess. i think a hell of alot of the time multiway both opponents wont stab light in a 3bet pot with your overcall. so on safe looking flops betting ranges for either pretty much have you crushed.

set mining is fine imo

Yeah the guy has 3bet very early, pre ante and vs an UTG open – very unlikely to be light

I agree with all the other guys about purely set mining here – we're getting pretty much 15:1 implied odds (sometimes i like closer to 20:1) but b/c this guys range is most likely very strong when he 3bets here, i think it's going to be quite easy to get it in vs his range when we flop our set

As played the only hand we beat is AK maybe AQ and we'd be pretty lucky if the guy double barrells that. I suppose it's possible but hell he might even put the rest in on the river if we make it there so you gotta just let it go imo

Personally, I like the preflop call. 

On the flop, put yourself in his shoes, if checked to, are we not taught to C-Bet?  Why do we think we are behind?  His C-Bet, though large, is pretty standard on the flop. Then when he is checked to again on the turn, what does your line look like to him?  Flush draw or maybe top pair, I would never put you on an over pair…..ever.  So he continues his line and bets big enough to get draws out and possible top pair with a weak kicker.  His bets are so outlandish they look bluffy to me, but we do not have enough info to really make that determination. 

Why do we not take control of the pot on the flop and get some more info?  Bet out on this innocuous flop, if we get push back we can fold more comfortably, right now we are playing a guessing game.

As played, I like a raise on the flop to 1000-1100. 

As played, the turn we are in no mans land without enough data to put him on anything so we fold.

If you cant handle just setmining, then fold pre imo. His range has us crushed, especially when he double barrels into two opponents.

raising flop is bad because we are essentially turning our hand into a bluff, and are unlikely to fold out anything better, but get it in crushed.

hapetimes said:

Agree, we cant c/r flop for value b/c there are no hands worse than ours that will call down

 

eg if we give him TT+,AQs+ pre, the only hands that are going to call or raise the flop are TT,QQ,KK,AA all of which totally crush us

 

and as duggs said this c/r is turning our hand into a bluff.. but NONE of these 4 hands are folding to our raise

 

we gave him a tight range pre and intended on set mining. Now that the flop is all lower than our JJ we are somehow trying to convince ourselves that his range has changed??

 

You made a plan pre to fold if the flop doesn't contain a J, i think you should maintain your discipline and chk fold flop

This is my thinking exactly, I know I played it badly, I had a plan and ignored it, that's never a good idea.

I think the line Okienga suggested certainly has some merit though, half the problem here was that I had no control of the pot whatsoever. Ultimately his bet sizing threw me and I ended up guessing and guessing wrong. Had I lead out and met resistance the fold on the turn or to a raise on the flop would have been easy.

He had KK by the way!