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J2s drawing to flush from BB
DTUSC
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February 19, 2015 - 4:13 pm
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Starting to take notes about some decisions I’m making at the poker table for later review and ran into some questions about this hand. It’s a very friendly game where we all know each other so there are tons of limpers in each pot. Let me know what you think:

Live NLHE MTT with friends
200/400 (5th blind level)
9-handed
Hero BB: 30+ BB
Villain UTG: 20ish BB

Hero Dealt Jd2d

UTG limps
2 more limps from MP
SB calls
Hero checks
5 players to flop

(2000) Flop: Kd3dJh

Hero Checks
Villain UTG bets 400
MP and SB players all fold
Hero calls 400

(2800) Turn: Ks

Hero Checks
Villain bets 800
Hero calls 800

(4400) River: 5h
Hero Checks
Villain bets 1600
Hero Folds

The friendly nature of the game and the terrible play by most of the players in the game makes it difficult to induce folds preflop or after flop if anyone has hit top pair or better. Villain was a older lady playing extremely tight, passive so for her limp alone I could put her on JT+ or 22+. She never ever raised preflop but generally called any reasonable preflop raise if she planned to play the hand.

I probably should have bet first on the flop, but being first to act and with so many players behind I wanted to wait and see the action first while keeping my hand strength disguised. When villain bet everyone at the table immediately knew she held a strong K, possibly even KJ, which is why you see everyone else fold to such a small bet. I felt like a raise here would definitely be called, but I wasn’t sure I wanted to play a big pot out of position when I knew I was behind unless the flush hit. I also don’t think she even noticed the flush draw at this point so I felt like I could extract value on future streets if I did hit it. My plan was to call and go for value if the flush hit or possibly even represent the straight with a big raise if the proper scare cards hit the board. Even then I’m not sure she would fold a hand like TPTK, so bluffing by representing the straight is a risky proposition.

After the 2nd K hit the board on the turn I knew there was no way to get her to fold her hand regardless of my bet size or whatever the river may be. I was willing to give up here to a decent bet, but this is where my question lies. With the small bet I’m looking at 4:1 pot odds to call and have 9 outs giving me roughly 20% equity making me indifferent to calling or folding. With the implied odds of her calling a reasonable value bet when I hit on the river I think this is an easy call. However, let’s assume she removes flush draws from my range completely if I check raise on the turn. Then, assuming she will call any raise I make on the turn and river if I bet both, but would fold to a shove on the river if the flush hits and I didn’t bet the turn, would it make sense to raise here? If so, how much and how would this amount be calculated?

Foucault

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February 19, 2015 - 4:25 pm
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I think checking flop is much better than betting, so good decision there. The only reason I'd raise flop would be to fold out a hand with a lot of equity, like QT or Kx. It sounds like this woman won't fold, so there's nothing accomplished by raising. There's certainly no reason to raise turn. Winning a bit more the 15% of the time you hit the flush isn't worth losing a bit more the 85% of the time you don't.

The turn could even be a fold. You actually only have 8 outs, because she either holds a diamond or one of the diamonds will make her a full house. There's even a chance she has a full house already. It really comes down to just how much you think you can win when you hit the flush. You're right that the turn is close, so if you think you can get a big bet paid off, then it's probably worth it.

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February 19, 2015 - 7:08 pm
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Thanks for the feedback.  Completely forgot to adjust for one of the outs being void due to full house once she had trips.  I was fairly confident after the turn that she didn't already have the full house, not 100% certain, but probably 90% sure.    Still, no reason to build the pot given the small percentage of the time that it works out.

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