A A A

Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy It's been asked before but .. (rega…

Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes)

It's been asked before but .. (regarding UTG limpers)

derSchwartz

Sunday Major

Members

Forum Posts: 258

Member Since:
November 4, 2013

Offline

January 14, 2015 - 12:46 pm

Hi TPE,

I wonder if in today's evolving and more aggressive game, this is worth asking again. Is it possible that with players getting more aggressive, at some point it is +EV and preferble to do what the villain does here?

Villain in this hand is someone I've played with before – loose and limpy. After 580 hands he's playing 30/10, limping 22%, 3betting 1.8%.
…..11/replay/
Blinds 250/500 antes 50
Villain, UTG, 7.1k
UTG+1, 17.8k
Hero, MP1, 4.8k
MP2, 16.3k
MP3, 10k
HJ, 4.5k
CO, 13k
SB, 7.7k
BB, 4.7k

Hero holds A spade T spade

UTG limps 500, 1 fold, Hero raises all in 4800, 6 folds, UTG calls 4300

Hero shows A spade T spade
UTG Villain shows J heart J diamond

Villain is getting low along with the crowd, about to be or already in what I've come to understand as push/fold mode. He picks up a hand that he wants action with but he's UTG, often the most respected position. So he takes his limpy image and turns it into a way to get action when he wants it.

Question A) When we are getting low UTG, and we really do want action with a premium hand, should we (despite all that I've heard/learned about balancing ranges) be doing this sometimes with the range of JJ-AA and maybe AK? Should we be doing it with just KK-AA? Should we not be doing it at all? I know that I have not been doing this or adjusting for this.

Question B) Should we be adjusting our shove after UTG limper for other players doing this? Are UTG players limping premiums like this more often or is that a misconception? I'm not really thinking ATs is a fold, but if we should adjust, does it mean shaving off the bottom of our range for shoving after an UTG limp from whatever our position? Or should we not adjust for this because we become too tight considering our own dwindling stack, and because we gain too much from shoving the times he does have a hand weaker than ours?

derSchwartz

Sunday Major

Members

Forum Posts: 258

Member Since:
November 4, 2013

Offline

January 16, 2015 - 5:07 pm

I bump/edit this question because I am curious about it and the forum has been busy so I think it may have been missed.

I can definitely see the answer being, “no, don't do what the villain did, he's just losing chips in the long run and failing to balance his range unless he limps other hands UTG too,”

but I can also see the answer being, “players are shoving over limps and playing more and more aggressively, therefore when you detect an aggressive table, are UTG and have XXBB to XXBB (Somewhere in the upper end and above the push/fold range), it may be a good play to open limp induce with (some range of premiums).”

annerb

Lighting Money On Fire

Members

Forum Posts: 27

Member Since:
January 19, 2014

Offline

January 16, 2015 - 6:10 pm

my observations of utg limpers is all from live play so not sure if things are different online.

limping with a big hand from utg to reraise or shove on a raiser is an old trick. when i see someone suddenly limp utg I see it as strength and never give the limper the satisfaction of a raise… I usually limp behind if i have a playable hand like a pair or lower connectors

however, just because it is an old trick, there are a lot of players who either don't know about it or fail to pay proper attention…. i have used it successfully on many occasions, especially when at an inflection point in the tournament. the extra big blind becomes just too tempting to my opponents…

gl if you decide to try it………

wager9

Small Stakes Grinder

Members

Forum Posts: 87

Member Since:
January 5, 2015

Offline

January 17, 2015 - 2:50 am

Good question(s)

As to the first one, I think this is a good play under the correct circumstances, i.e. “it depends.” If you have JJ and are ready to get it in and you have a limpy image and all of a sudden raise UTG you may not get any calls and basically turn your hand face up. This villain may also have had a read on a player behind who he felt was getting ready to shove – the stacks are short after all. So considering all of the variable in play here, in this spot it could very well be a +EV play.

As to adjusting for it, I would not suggest it unless it A) becomes a standard and used a lot wherever you are playing or B) the particular player you see doing it, you know has done it before. So if you run into this guy again…yeah I'd consider it when playing against him.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
69 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)