Im not a massive fan of flatting here in the SB with this hand. Your just above 40 bbs and looking to tangle with the other chip leader.

I think having the mentality of “trying to be the table captain” IMO is flawed as you just get into trouble.

That being said I dont lead out on the flop I probably c / c and see the turn. I dont really want to bloat the pot OOP vs other big stack when we have such good equity/ chip stack in this tournament.

Maybe we just have different views on the game, im more of a fan of pot controlling ala goleafsgoeh but each to their own I guess!

Curious to what others think…

Van H3Lzing said:

Im not a massive fan of flatting here in the SB with this hand. Your just above 40 bbs and looking to tangle with the other chip leader.

I think having the mentality of “trying to be the table captain” IMO is flawed as you just get into trouble.

 

That being said I dont lead out on the flop I probably c / c and see the turn. I dont really want to bloat the pot OOP vs other big stack when we have such good equity/ chip stack in this tournament.

 

Maybe we just have different views on the game, im more of a fan of pot controlling ala goleafsgoeh but each to their own I guess!

 

Curious to what others think…

 

Van: Thanks for your input. I highlighted two areas I want to address…

 

1. You're right about the table captain thing. It was an in game thing and I choose the wrong word choice… I guess I could clarifiy that a little better. We were both LAG, and seemed to understand that we could/should open a ton of pots to take down the blinds/antes. Due to his stack he was prob opening 60% of the pots, where I was opening the other 40%. I believe this was because of his stack size compared to mine, and me not having the hand to 3/b one of his openings… so I figured flatting OOP will allow me to see the flop cheaply and allow me to “flop mine”. With this particular hand I am only looking for flushes, 2 pairs, or some kind of straight draws– the weak A would be a very cautious approach. At least that was the plan going into the hand.

 

2. I like your line of c/c the flop to re-evaluate the turn, that seems to be the safest route. But as I stated above my plan going into the hand was to extract as many chips from villain with a reasonably strong/disguised hand. I thought briefly about c/c, but figured if comes on the turn that could slow down villain's action… I elect to donk bet to do two things: define villains range and get chips in the pot. When he raises my donk bet I realize he has a decently strong hand (1010+, AQ+, straight draw, weaker flush draw). This is were I think I spewed If my read is correct I felt villain is not going to fold many of those hands, especially if it was a hand combo containing a . With the hand range I assigned him, I'm count 9 outs to flush and 3 outs for an A (because I don't believe he can call my shove w/ naked A but it would reduce my A outs if this is his hand)–but my shove could also look very weak as well and could occasionally get called by worse.

 

For sure, this isn't the safest route to climb the money ladder… but it essentially gtd's a FT if we win. So I was torn due to ICM if the safe route is better than going for the jugular & the win.

Thanks for the awesome replies! I gave this hand a little more thought and I think I found a few other lines that might be more optimal:

1- 3b pf and fold to 4b (would define his range and I would be able to send a message that he will not easily run over my blinds without some play back. If villian only smooth calls us, I defer to the lines below—-v

2- smooth call pf to see cheap flop; c/c flop cb from villian and assess the turn… if any heart or A then c/r turn, or alternative c/r any turn card that connects with the board as a bluff with river card as the disguised catch if villian calls/raises. If river hits us, bet if c/r turn or c/r again.

3. call pf. c/c flop. c/c turn. c/r or c/f depending on getting there. (passive, but least lost and least gained… but most straight forward and less chance for errors).

Anyways, this was a tricky spot and worth getting some opinions on… I'm sure it won't be the first/last time this will come up for me so it's always good to have various plays in my arsenal.

I think you are deep enough to see a flop with the suited ace.  I pretend in that spot you have a small to middle pocket pair looking to flop a set (have pretty much same odds to flop a set and flush draw).  I am personally not a big fan of 3 betting pre due to the fact he may flat in position with a bigger ace and will give you fits if and when you flop top pair oop.

I just think it is really important on how you are going to play this hand before you see a flop.  If you tell yourself you are going with the hand if you hit the flop, then go for it.  I really don't like c/c the flop because imo you are turning your hand completely face up and won't be able to extract max value when you do hit the draw.  The semi bluff to either a) take the flop down on flop or b) induce to play for stacks is fine with me.  I don't mind if that is what you are prepared to do.  With the way he played back at you, he is screaming overpair, but you are drawing to 12 outs (assuming the ace is live, and do have a bd sd) and basically flipping in this spot if you get it in on the flop.  With the way played, I personally like a c/r on the flop due to the dry texure of the flop, in which he will be c betting with a large part of his range.  You will also see how he reacts to it and can minimize his range at that point.

I think that this hand and spot is just a great example though of our actions pre, and what we are trying to accomplish with the hand. If you elect to play it and flop what you are after than you need to be prepared to get it in post.  If you aren't prepared to do this, just muck and move on to the next hand imo.  As you said, if you hit your draw then you are in GREAT shape to bink the tourney.  Best of luck at the tables.