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ITM RSO Can we flat here? How can we not flat here?
Gareth Chantler
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April 29, 2013 - 4:02 am
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Poker Stars $50+$5 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t700/t1400 Blinds + t175 – 9 players – View hand 2194488
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

BTN: BB = 80.2, t112326
SB: BB = 18.4, t25731
Hero (BB): BB = 22.9, t32011
UTG: BB = 22.2, t31114
UTG+1: BB = 25.8, t36148
UTG+2: BB = 11.9, t16717
MP1: BB = 21.6, t30205
MP2: BB = 31.6, t44295
CO: BB = 14.7, t20586

Pre Flop: (t3675) Hero is BB with 9 of spades T of spades
4 folds, MP2 raises to t3724, 3 folds, Hero calls t2324?

 

Villain is playing 31/29/27 over 55 hands but passive postflop (11% post agg freq n=2/19, inc 0/4 otr) 

 

Payouts are ludicrously flat, top 3270 or so make the money for 130$ then first jump is at 650 left, think there are like 2800 left here. 

florianm1
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April 29, 2013 - 6:47 am
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flat is fine if we are willing to make a play if we have any piece of the board or if he shows weakness

 

i might also stick it in pre with his numbers. very mood dependent but for sure +cEV

 

cheers

duggs
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April 29, 2013 - 8:40 am
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looks like a great spot to defend.

Gareth Chantler
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April 29, 2013 - 9:54 am
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Ok well that solves that.

 

But wait there is more! You thought it was over, but its not! There are more decisions to be made….

 

What to do on the turn and does anyone lead flop?

Poker Stars $50+$5 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t700/t1400 Blinds + t175 – 9 players – View hand 2194488
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

BTN: BB = 80.2, t112326
SB: BB = 18.4, t25731
Hero (BB): BB = 22.9, t32011
UTG: BB = 22.2, t31114
UTG+1: BB = 25.8, t36148
UTG+2: BB = 11.9, t16717
MP1: BB = 21.6, t30205
MP2: BB = 31.6, t44295
CO: BB = 14.7, t20586

Pre Flop: (t3675) Hero is BB with 9 of spades T of spades
4 folds, MP2 raises to t3724, 3 folds, Hero calls t2324

Flop: (t9723) 7 of hearts 8 of spades 6 of diamonds (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

Turn: (t9723) Q of hearts (2 players)
Hero 

Foucault

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April 29, 2013 - 10:14 am
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Gareth Chantler said:

Ok well that solves that.

 

But wait there is more! You thought it was over, but its not! There are more decisions to be made….

 

What to do on the turn and does anyone lead flop?

Poker Stars $50+$5 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t700/t1400 Blinds + t175 – 9 players – View hand 2194488
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

BTN: BB = 80.2, t112326
SB: BB = 18.4, t25731
Hero (BB): BB = 22.9, t32011
UTG: BB = 22.2, t31114
UTG+1: BB = 25.8, t36148
UTG+2: BB = 11.9, t16717
MP1: BB = 21.6, t30205
MP2: BB = 31.6, t44295
CO: BB = 14.7, t20586

Pre Flop: (t3675) Hero is BB with 9 of spades T of spades
4 folds, MP2 raises to t3724, 3 folds, Hero calls t2324

Flop: (t9723) 7 of hearts 8 of spades 6 of diamonds (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks

Turn: (t9723) Q of hearts (2 players)
Hero 

Like the preflop call. Seems like a clear check/raise on the turn. Hard to imagine he calls/raises turn with anything that wouldn't bet when checked to.

florianm1
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April 29, 2013 - 3:13 pm
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with the initial lead that he is passive we cant expect him to do the betting for us

i prefer leading all three streets

Gareth Chantler
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April 30, 2013 - 3:46 am
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I check, villain bets 4444, I make it 11,111. Too big right? 9777 or 10,333 has to be better I think. 

I don't really like leading flop because we have no hopes of getting a c-bet from his misses (which is unlikely to happen) but we also don't risk anything with a check. Something good could happen, like him hitting a queen. I would rather check-call flop, lead turn small if we're worried about him checking back hands he shouldn't or hands other villains would bet. 

 

I think its fine to say he is passive but Andrew makes a good point. What hands, exactly, check the flop, then call the turn, that don't bet the turn themselves? I can't think of any besides middle/bottom pair with the open ender. If he picked up top pair or a flush draw he is very likely to bet (he is passive overall, not in all contexts) and we punish him the most and do the best v both those hands by check-raising. 

 

So yeah I would just watch for applying a general rule to a specific situation, you have to figure out if the situation fits the rule to do so effectively. 

florianm1
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April 30, 2013 - 4:49 am
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well, if i look at the board again more carefully it might be a very good line you took.

 

looking at the flop even if he is passive i guess he bets most of his range as it connects very well with the board

 

he migth check back lots of broadsway combos which are likely to catch up by the turn or check backs with 22-44.

which indeed happens.

 

i think your raise is fine i would make it 9999 here.

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