View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Is this an obvious fold?
2blacklabs
Guest
Guests
1
March 19, 2014 - 10:03 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

Here is a scenario I'm always conflicted with. Still pretty early in the tournament, blinds are 150/300. Villain who calls me pre is a reg who's pretty ABC. When he shoves over my C bet on the flop, should this almost always be a fold? I called because I thought he was capable of shoving on a draw, or A9/K9 types of hands.

 

What do you think? 

MP1: BB = 79.5, t11932
MP2: BB = 44.7, t6700
CO: BB = 34.0, t5097
BTN: BB = 62.2, t9337
SB: BB = 26.3, t3945
BB: BB = 24.9, t3738
UTG: BB = 6.7, t1009
Hero (UTG+1): BB = 25.1, t3771
UTG+2: BB = 220.6, t33084

Pre Flop: (t360) Hero is UTG+1 with T of diamonds T of clubs
1 fold, Hero raises to t377.00, 5 folds, SB calls t302, 1 fold

Flop: (t1039) 9 of diamonds 5 of hearts 8 of hearts (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t577.00, SB raises to t3553 all in, Hero calls t2802 all in

Turn: (t7797) A of hearts (2 players – 2 are all in)

River: (t7797) 7 of clubs (2 players – 2 are all in)

Flicka12Bet
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 53
Member Since:
February 27, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
March 20, 2014 - 6:11 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Without any dynamics of the table the SB could easily have also hand like 87, 97, 96, with double draw and a pair kind of hand. also, 98, K9 J9 JT, KQh, QJh might be possible hands. Even A7, A6 but looks like the Ah comes on the turn it not that.

Over pairs dont seem likely since you said he is playing ABC you might think he 3+bet JJ or better pre flop.

He might have alot of hands that have connected with his calling range.

I think you should at least concider a fold… I feel that too often I fall in love with my over pair even in a borad like that..  and he shows 98 or K9h and he hits his flush or king… 

2blacklabs
Guest
Guests
3
March 20, 2014 - 12:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks. Yeah, I fall in love with my overpairs too often too.

MovesLikeDarvin

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 276
Member Since:
December 30, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
March 20, 2014 - 1:22 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

dont think this has to be a fold, most of the hands you describe are plausible, as are some bluffs and some showdown hands he overvalues…

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
March 20, 2014 - 1:29 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

hey i did math and my post got lost earlier.

 

you need like 1.85:1 which means like 35% equity. It takes a lot for you to not have that on this type of board.

 

Here's the range I threw together. (88, 99, 55, AhTh, 98s, 67s, KhJh, KhTh, QhJh, KhQh, QhTh, K9s, A9s, TJh)

That's sets, top pair, flush draws+overs, combo draws, whatever.

You're 39% to that range. Stacks aren't really good for him to flat from the sb unless he also thinks bb squeezes often, but you didn't mention an aggro bb so i'm assuming it's just readless other than you know him to be an abc reg. even if he has all combos of JJ (meaning he doesn't 3b there ever), you're still 34% making it a lot closer.

 

there aren't anymore hands we can add to his range that hurt your equity further other than overpairs, but we've established his range is sort of stuck to be capped because honestly can he really slowplay monsters in the sb giving the bb an amazing price to complete with a huge monster crushing range? he'll have an spr of 4 oop 3-ways so much of the time, so i think his call is what it says. it's not monsters. so there ya go.

2blacklabs
Guest
Guests
6
March 20, 2014 - 2:20 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Thanks very much, great information! This shows how much I have to learn

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
March 20, 2014 - 2:46 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

ya dude! if it seems overwhelming, a decent place to start is to just think about a few of the hand types instead of all hands.

like he has flush draws, top pairs, straights, sets instead of all of the hand combos and then calculating your equity. when youre this shallow, it's really difficult for me to find folds with decent hands on these boards because the ck/shove flop line is pretty easy to think to do if theyre at all thinking.

 

we all have a ton to learn 🙂

peppergrinder
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 43
Member Since:
March 11, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
March 20, 2014 - 4:01 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

I always want to make the call because I just don't believe that I'm beat but in my experience they are usually going to show you at least a set, 2 pair or a higher pair. If they bluffed successfully good luck to them to risk bluffing off their stack at this point in the tournament. Unless I've seen someone make a move like this in the past I tend to err on the side of caution. One pair is generally a small pot hand

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
March 20, 2014 - 4:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

they can't play small pots though. spr is 4. the money's going in and if they happen to flop top pair, how are they playing it? at that stack size, they can't check/call down with an extremely vulnerable top pair. they can't check/call with all of the flush draws. check out the math dude 🙂

peppergrinder
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 43
Member Since:
March 11, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
March 22, 2014 - 10:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

You’re right Jacob…..I should be looking for help not offering advice. I’m too nitty by far. No guarantees in Hold ’em. At some point you have to get your chips in and hope for the best……everyone else does! Even when the math is a little light the blinds come up so fast if you get a good spot sometimes you have to take it. It’s nice to be the one shoving and have the FE though. What do you think about ripping it in on the flop?

SIGABA
California
High Stakes Shark
Members
Forum Posts: 201
Member Since:
January 20, 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
11
March 24, 2014 - 2:06 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I'm a little confused.  If the blinds are 150/300, how did you raise to 377?  Maybe the blinds are 75/150?

 

If the blinds are 75/150, then I think you have to go with this.  He did check raise you, but I think he would do that with flush draws and straight draws.  I like the way you played the hand the whole way, including calling his all in.  If he had you on the flop, gg sir.  If he got there on later streets, then rest assured that you got your money in good.  Unless he had 9heart 6heart or 9heart 7heart … in that case you were a dog.

 

Thanks for the post laugh

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
12
March 24, 2014 - 11:16 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

75/150 was the level steve haha. i like how you think 🙂

 

no worries, pepper we're all there at some point. this is just a more easy to read spot than some and with a little math and thinking, you can kinda solve the problem. most spots and hands are akin to building complex lego sets with every other picture missing. this particular spot only has a few pages of instructions to go through though 🙂

jacobsharktank
Florida
Playing The Prelims
Members
Forum Posts: 547
Member Since:
December 24, 2013
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
13
March 24, 2014 - 11:34 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

what do you mean when you say ripping on the flop? if you mean simply shoving all in when he checks to us, no no that's completely unnecessary because you'll just end the hand when you're ahead, lose the hand when you're behind, and get called when you're not in the best shape to hold. to be honest, i'm totally happy with the bet/call line on the flop because it's really really easy for villain's to ck/shove wide (wide enough that we're still correct to call). This spot's high variance when they shove over, but the difference between our equities is our edge overall. It shows itself in idk slightly better than coinflips where majority the time we have a bigger stack and 1- majority of the time we have the small stack. this is one of the hand types where we're talking about when were like “oh you just need to run good to win tourneys”

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
51 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

Tillery999

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12008

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1