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Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy is this a good spot to bluff/shove

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is this a good spot to bluff/shove

tmck21

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July 16, 2011 - 8:40 pm

interested to hear what you guys think, how many times would you shove river with air here. representing the ace on flop, 2 flats, on turn gain lots of outs, with the lead and flat i was getting 3 1/2 to 1 to bink, got air and they both insta checked, could easily have an ace here with my line, and river shove as a bluff i think they can fold their weak aces and q's and missed draws obv.

mmffeerr- 22/12 260hands

treptow- 27/9 100 hands

$20 4k

curious as to how often if ever do you guys do this and would it be a good play

thanks for your time and responses cool

Merge No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t20.00/t40.00 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

allinBigUnit4 (MP1): t2204.00 55.10 BBs
tedSTRETCHED (MP2): t4248.00 106.20 BBs
PajamaSlamma (CO): t3765.00 94.12 BBs
Hero (BTN): t5085.00 127.12 BBs
mmffeerr (SB): t3825.00 95.62 BBs
treptow (BB): t3960.00 99 BBs
pokerReadEM (UTG): t3772.00 94.30 BBs
MintBerryCrrrunch (UTG+1): t4943.00 123.58 BBs
4Xtrader (UTG+2): t4218.00 105.45 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN with J of hearts 9
6 folds, Hero raises to t120, mmffeerr calls t100, treptow calls t80

Flop: (t360) 6 of hearts A of clubs 8 (3 players)
mmffeerr checks, treptow checks, Hero bets t180.00, mmffeerr calls t180, treptow calls t180

Turn: (t900) Q of hearts (3 players)
mmffeerr bets t600.00, treptow calls t600, Hero calls t600

River: (t2700) 4 of spades (3 players)
mmffeerr checks, treptow checks hero?

thehyde

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Guests

July 16, 2011 - 10:53 pm

I check… I would love to say I would do something fancy… But I just check. I would love to know what is the right move because it seems in my world if I shove…. I end up having to look for another tournament to play…. laugh

Killingbird

Cary, NC

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April 6, 2010

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July 17, 2011 - 9:37 pm

yeah, i dont like it either. if the river were more of a scare card I can see pulling the trigger, but not sure what we are representing here otherwise.

brooksea

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Guests

July 18, 2011 - 12:41 pm

I agree that your line looks strong, but given that you opened in late position and both came along, you are almost never getting both of them to fold imo. One of them has a decent ace and calls because he doesn't believe you, whether he should or not.

hawkeyeK9

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Guests

July 19, 2011 - 6:18 pm

I think it is a good move to at least consider given the spot to do so and the size of the pot. Given that it is so early, it is not 100% necessary, but there is nothing wrong with trying to get a big stack early. When you are playing multiple tournaments online and it is so easy to register for another I think it is smart to get creative and try and build stacks, not saying spew :).

It is a multi-way pot but your line does look strong throughout, and given they are showing so much weakness at the end here, I think it works more than not. So I think you got to make that call in the moment whether or not to do it but I think it is good to at least have that play in your bag of tricks for the right spots. I probably make the play 1:3 times in this particular spot given the information. Love that you are at least considering it wink

FkCoolers

Cambridge, Ma (Central Square)

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July 3, 2010

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July 19, 2011 - 8:10 pm

I think mmffeerr has A9-AJ and looks you up because every draw missed and no one played this hand with much strength.

If you did have a very strong hand you'd shove the turn to charge max value for draws and to get it in before a lot of river cards make you puke.

And with your hand I think it's infinitely better to semi-bluff jam this turn card than to flat and make a play against two people – this is the biggest point.

tmck21

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Guests

July 20, 2011 - 3:18 am

Good thought coolers. I was thinking ahead to the river to see if draws missed. I didn’t think about moving on the turn.

hawkeyeK9

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Guests

July 20, 2011 - 12:02 pm

FkCoolers said:

I think mmffeerr has A9-AJ and looks you up because every draw missed and no one played this hand with much strength.

If you did have a very strong hand you'd shove the turn to charge max value for draws and to get it in before a lot of river cards make you puke.

And with your hand I think it's infinitely better to semi-bluff jam this turn card than to flat and make a play against two people – this is the biggest point.

This is a good point but it is hard to move in on the turn when SB donk leads for 600 into 900 pot and bb called also. At that point it would really be hard to pull the trigger. They did not show weakness until the blank river and there insta checks showed mega weakness. I think at that point, given our hero has committed some chips to the pot and given his line, he can represent a lot of decent aces. So it is not bad to think about a jam on the river since it is the only chance to win this nice pot at this point. Jam on the turn might incline fish to try and chase their draw.

rivermen123

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Guests

July 20, 2011 - 10:20 pm

tmck21 said:

interested to hear what you guys think, how many times would you shove river with air here. representing the ace on flop, 2 flats, on turn gain lots of outs, with the lead and flat i was getting 3 1/2 to 1 to bink, got air and they both insta checked, could easily have an ace here with my line, and river shove as a bluff i think they can fold their weak aces and q's and missed draws obv.

mmffeerr- 22/12 260hands

treptow- 27/9 100 hands

$20 4k

curious as to how often if ever do you guys do this and would it be a good play

thanks for your time and responses

Merge No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t20.00/t40.00 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

allinBigUnit4 (MP1): t2204.00 55.10 BBs
tedSTRETCHED (MP2): t4248.00 106.20 BBs
PajamaSlamma (CO): t3765.00 94.12 BBs
Hero (BTN): t5085.00 127.12 BBs
mmffeerr (SB): t3825.00 95.62 BBs
treptow (BB): t3960.00 99 BBs
pokerReadEM (UTG): t3772.00 94.30 BBs
MintBerryCrrrunch (UTG+1): t4943.00 123.58 BBs
4Xtrader (UTG+2): t4218.00 105.45 BBs

Pre Flop: (t60) Hero is BTN with J 9
6 folds, Hero raises to t120, mmffeerr calls t100, treptow calls t80

Flop: (t360) 6 A 8 (3 players)
mmffeerr checks, treptow checks, Hero bets t180.00, mmffeerr calls t180, treptow calls t180

Turn: (t900) Q (3 players)
mmffeerr bets t600.00, treptow calls t600, Hero calls t600

River: (t2700) 4 (3 players)
mmffeerr checks, treptow checks hero?

Having not read any other replies….

Preflop, this deep, I try to make it a little bigger in position. If I'm playing a pot early, I'm playing a pot.

Clearly one of them has an ace. However, when checked to otr with this many chips in the pot, I have a hard time not shoving.

I can't see how this is good advice. Sorry. cry

rivermen123

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Guests

July 20, 2011 - 10:25 pm

You should be making your move on the turn imo. It keeps monster made hands in your range.

This is why we play pots in position. Turn up the heat after the bet and call on the turn, and you can get credit for AQ or better when you shove the river.

I make it about 1700 on the turn and probably end up embarrassed when i get shoved on otr.

FkCoolers

Cambridge, Ma (Central Square)

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Forum Posts: 1610

Member Since:
July 3, 2010

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July 21, 2011 - 7:20 pm

If we raise to 1700 on the Turn and get called by even just 1 person we're effectively shoving like 1800-1900 into 5k on the river. I don't like that at all.

sammyboy

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Guests

July 28, 2011 - 8:05 am

I think the insta checks from both make me waaaay more tempted than anything else – how many times you see people insta check river then call off their entire stack? Granted such a large bet looks a bit bluffy, but their insta checking because they'd rather not put more chips in….

badabing78

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Guests

July 28, 2011 - 9:01 am

i admit it looks tempting to shove but i think i wouldnt do it.

if someone has an ace, which is quite psbl, he will call you.

i also think people tend to make more calls with marginal holdings early in the tourney than later on.

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