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My first light 4ball.
I 4ball there because my hand is perfect for 4ball, so I 4ball it.
Is that 4-ball bad? I mean, even I fold it, I still get 20BB, plenety chips to play and can get into FT very easily.
Just curious, if you were the BB, what is your 3bet and calling range? Aj+,88+? By the way, if I go allin that way, can I make ATo and 77, 66 fold?
Full Tilt Poker $28,000 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t4000/t8000 Blinds + t1000 – 7 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge
MnRz-4BtShv (BB): BB = 38.5, t308083
loose_cannon_jj (UTG): BB = 37.7, t301934
fred ivey (UTG+1): BB = 32.9, t263502
yobabysdaddy (MP): BB = 30.5, t244214
pokercj95 (CO): BB = 22.5, t180116
rancher93 (BTN): BB = 13.6, t109115
johnny_bob (SB): BB = 17.2, t137801
Pre Flop: (t19000) pokercj95 is CO with 5
6
3 folds, pokercj95 raises to t18250, 2 folds, MnRz-4BtShv requests TIME, MnRz-4BtShv raises to t56175, pokercj95 raises to t179116 all in, MnRz-4BtShv calls t122941
Flop: (t369232) Q
7 2
Turn: (t369232) 2
River: (t369232) 2
Final Pot: t369232
MnRz-4BtShv shows K
A (three of a kind, Twos)
pokercj95 shows 5 6 (three of a kind, Twos)
MnRz-4BtShv wins t369232
Guess it is a bad 4-ball, because the pot is 250k, he only need 123k to call the allin, I do not have enough fold equity.
He has 2:1 pot odds, he should call with A9+, 55+.
yea you need deeper stacks to 4ball here. 23ish bbs dosnt give you enough fold equity.
generally i like to have 35+bbs or if the raises are small like i min raise and they put in a 2.5x three bet you can 4bet with a little less.
pokeryjj said:
Guess it is a bad 4-ball, because the pot is 250k, he only need 123k to call the allin, I do not have enough fold equity.
He has 2:1 pot odds, he should call with A9+, 55+.
+1 glad to see you worked your way through the hand. He should never fold after his 3 bet size with the amount you have behind.
hey man, yeah im not exactly a fan of this 4bet i instantly thought for sure you would get snap called……when i 4bet i tend to rather it be cold. For example, hijack or CO makes a standard 2.2-2.5x raise….(table is active obv with lots of 3betting) then the CO/Button or SB makes a small 3bet where you know he has enough chips to fold if he is actually FOS….then if i am BB literally jam in any 2 if the situation is right cuz ur repping huge.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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Agree with your own assessment that the stacks are not deep enough. One thing that's missing here as well is reads. Why do you think this guy is light enough to fold?
Thanks for all your responses.
1. 2 hands ago, He raises from UTG, I have qko in the SB, I fold it, BB with 16BB jams his UTG raise, he folds.——->his UTG raise is light, I guess he is capable of 3bet from blinds.
2. I do a lot of 3bet from BB by myself. I make it pretty significant 3bets, actually I will fold to their 4ball jam. Because the 3ball is huge, you can not flat there, only thing for CO or BTN is allin or fold, they can not call the 3ball profitably.
Because I do that a lot, I assume he is doing the same there.——–>should not assume others will do the same as I do.
RonFezBuddy said:
Agree with your own assessment that the stacks are not deep enough. One thing that's missing here as well is reads. Why do you think this guy is light enough to fold?
Has he seen you 3bet alot? What is alot? and fwiw I am folding to his 3bet. Hate to repeat over and over but stacks are not deep enough to 4bet jam.
Here is a thought tho, if you initially had a plan to go all-in with this hand if 3bet into. Why not just Jam? If you are going to jam over a 3bet just open jam. Any agree with this idea? Fwiw I would not do it with 56hh but the idea I'm getting at?
July 3, 2010
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22.5 bb is a lot to open jam with at this stage. You can raise/fold here, though, and still have fold equity.
I'd raise my 56s and simply let it go to a 3 ball in this particular spot.
And doubt I would open jam any hand here as I'll want to induce 3 bets with my strong hands and open as a steal with my weak hands.
I think it's been said already but the following statement is severely flawed logic:
“I 4ball there because my hand is perfect for 4ball, so I 4ball it.”
It's far from perfect. You flop well against his big unpaired broadways. You're crushed by the pairs he 3 bets. You sit somewhere in the bottom 1/3 of his range unless you have very specific reads. You also have no fold equity.
June 11, 2010
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I let this go to the 3bet. 6 high is not something I am going to war with, especially at this stage in a tournament. I may be a bit of a nit, but I will typically only 4bet with the goods. Doing it light can be a really dangerous thing imo. The questions I ask myself when someone 3bets me are
1. How active have I been and is this a response to that?
2. Is this a response to a perceived position raise (btn to blinds, co/hj to btn or blinds)?
3. If the above answers are no, is what I am holding ahead of his 3bet range, enough so to justify a 4bet?
4. If I am not ahead of his 3bet range and I cannot justify a 4bet, can I call the 3bet and re-evaluate?
I tend to find that the way I play 1 and 2 tend to come up yes a lot late in a tournament and it a lot of cases I will flat it and take the pot on a later street. When they come up no, 3 is a really hard question for me to answer yes to, and i probably answer yes to 4 more than i should and attempt to hit a lucky flop.
lespaulgman said:
1. How active have I been and is this a response to that?
2. Is this a response to a perceived position raise (btn to blinds, co/hj to btn or blinds)?
3. If the above answers are no, is what I am holding ahead of his 3bet range, enough so to justify a 4bet?
4. If I am not ahead of his 3bet range and I cannot justify a 4bet, can I call the 3bet and re-evaluate?
lespaulgman FTW ^^^^^^… 😉
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