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ttwist said:

considoring our lead pro here at TPE has just signed a very lucrative contract with the site id be hardpressed to say anything negative at this point because there has been nothing to say since the scandal was burried 5 years ago. just wondering your opinion on BIGDOGPCKT5S signing with UB and what is your username on the site?

ttwist said:

considoring our lead pro here at TPE has just signed a very lucrative contract with the site id be hardpressed to say anything negative at this point because there has been nothing to say since the scandal was burried 5 years ago. just wondering your opinion on BIGDOGPCKT5S signing with UB and what is your username on the site?

I was not aware of this at all…I will drop the conversation all together…really sorry about that…guess I am not as current about the news as I thought I was.

Thanks guys.

After considering your replies I'm playing in a small stakes re-buy tourney on UB at the moment, I've seen how bad some of these players are, several clueless donks were doing all sorts crazy stuff. If this is the usual standard on UB then it's even softer than Sky Poker (where I usually play). As we approach the bubble most of the idiots have been eliminated and there's now a pretty decent standard of play (13/51, 45 paid). Can't believe anybody would bother cheating tourneys at my buy-in level, at UB, or anywhere else.

Edit; got 3rd, will be playing there more often in the future.

I will try to be proactive here and provide some helpful information I hope…

There is 3 really good things UB does better than anyone else in my opinion:

* Cashout – hands down, UB is the best on the net.  There may be a
“slight” and I do use the word lightly, problem once in a rare while
that people complain about.  But I have never had a problem with them, and
never a bounced check once.  Checks arrive in 2 days from cashout, and for
lower stake players, they do western union payouts and it will be done within
48 hours.  For people that don't have to wait for security checks like
myself, I have often cashed out and had the money in a couple of hours or the
next day.  Nobody offers a better service here than UB.

* Customer support access – they respond via email super fast, offer live
chat, and VIP service has a telephone number to talk to someone 24/7.  VIP
service takes practically next to nothing to wrack up in points and
achieve.  There is something pretty special about having someone there to
talk to any time!

* Structure – DEEP STACK POKER BABY!!!!!!!!!  Here is the main
difference between all the other sites, and what I watch so many people
struggle with going between the two sites.  There are some very good
grinders with sick numbers on UB, but they can't play on FT or Stars to save
their life.  The same holds true in reverse…I have watched so many of you
come over to UB and state how it's rigged, or they run bad there, etc… and
truth is that most of the people that were raised on Stars or FT don't have a
clue how to play big stack poker!  I think it's hysterical because I have
listened to so many people say the same exact thing about the opposing site,
but not really understand what is going on.  You need to open your game up
more, not play so nitty, waiting for premiums all the time, understand how to
3, 4, and even 5 bet effectively if you are going to play there.  Don't
get carried away with it, but make sure it's in your arsenal!  Play more Broadway
cards, suited connectors, 2 gappers than you are use to, and not only more than
you are use to, but in earlier positions as well.  Understanding table
dynamics and having solid reads on your players will make a rock star over
there!  IMO, it's crucial to understanding how to play deep stack poker
and exploit weakness.  If you sit around and try to play premiums over
there all the time, the regs will run over you!  Get use to playing 50+ bb
stacks when you get deep, and again, have solid reads on your table, and you
can run over them.  Here is the huge advantage you will have over most
people over there…ICM!  That is he one main reasons why the regs at UB
struggle so much on FT.  They understand ICM, and a general idea of how to
apply it, but with stacks so deep they don't need to rely on shortstack ninja
stuff as much so their skills are weaker here.  I find it is very easy to
play shorstacks on UB because majority of the deep stack players aren't solid
at all with their ICM, and hence why they bitch about FT and Stars so
much.  It's an extremely easy site to run over but it's not so much because
EVERYONE is idiots are donkeys, but because there just aren't as many grinders
on the site as you all are use to.  In fact, being raised on UB, I think
there are far more landmines on FT than anything you will see on UB.  On
FT, there is a LOT more hero calling, even surprisingly by players who played
solid the whole time, go super deep with me, and then totally make some
ridiculous hero call with Q7s just because it looked “pretty!” 
There are bad players everywhere, but it's just what you are conditioned to
looking at.  You all see more glaringly obvious fish/donkeys on UB than I
see, and I see a lot more terrible plays on FT than what you see.  It's
just what stands out to us based off of what we are use to.

The one major downfall that drives me nuts with UB is tracking
software.  It doesn't import tournament summaries, so from a bankroll or
results orientated player, you're SOL.  The hud works and your hands are
there, but the rest of the application you dead in the water with.  This
is actually another main reason I switched to FT so that I can track all this
stuff properly.  It's easy to get lost on UB when you can't track exactly
what is happening, and how you are doing, although you could still use
Sharkscope to see your progress.

Hope some of this helps! 

while i play UB and think it has some of the best tournaments available, i totally respect certain players who do refuse to play there.

FWIW, it's not only breakeven fish who boycott UB. there are very good, even great players who refuse to play there.

and also, the superuser scandal a few years ago is not the only scandal that UB is trying to move past. within the last year it came to people's attention that UB was using some ghetto encryption instead of the standard encryption that almost all sites use who facilitate the exchange of money over the internet.

many people believe that the lax security led to some cheating in cash games.

i think more than anything, lots of players, especially old school players who have been around for a long time, have a problem with a company which included cheating it's customers in it's original business model (which is basically what happened with the superusing), and then tried to become legit when online poker blew up.

Killingbird said:

I have no problem with people who choose not to play there.  It's obviously a personal choice and there are other places to play.  That being said, I play on AP.  It's one of the softest sites and has really manageble field sizes.  My best ROI is certainly on AP.  I've said this in another thread, but many companies have done things in the past that I disagree with.  Target is a great example…but my wife loves her some Target, so GL me trying to ever get her to stop shopping there. 

 

I rely on poker to make a living and put a roof over my families head…so I choose to play wherever I can make money.  Stars and Full Tilt have both done things I disagree with as well.  Same with the WSOP.  Can't boycott em all!

yeah but cheating players was literally part of their business model. i don't care what other sites have done, nothing comes close to what UB did.

the people running the site had accounts that could see other people's cards, and they used those accounts to cheat their rake-paying customers. then online poker blew up and they tried to cover it up and go legit.

full tilt having poor support or stars making a mistake here or there that costs a player some equity doens't come close to cheating your players out of hundreds of thousands of dollars.

now, obviously they can change, and it appears they have. but i think lumping UB in with FTP/Stars/WSOP is borderline insane.

i didnt know that about cake, thanks for the info.

not sure how it's relevant to UB, though. it's not a double standard unless someone is defending cake's lax security while criticizing UB's.

in case it's not clear, the reason i became involved in this thread is because there were a couple of people kind of downplaying UB's past, and also claiming that only people who don't win on UB think UB is shady.

i felt compelled to say something. people think UB is shady because the the people who started UB made a fortune cheating their customers, and then tried to cover it up.

there is bad blood and hard feelings because it was the players that had to battle with UB for ages to finally get at the truth.

and i persoanlly think it's in the best interest of the poker community to never forget that, and to freely bring it all up when talking about UB. there are no regulatory bodies looking out for our best interests when playing, and there are plenty of people who have and are taking advantage of that (Ub superusers, multi-accounters, collusion rings, etc). so one of our weapons in fighting cheating is to tarnish the reputation of anyone who does so.

sure UB can change, and like i've said, it appears they have. i play there and love their MTT schedule. they have also built a very strong and respectable group of players to represent them, players i trust, like casey or roothlus or prahlad (who, iirc, got cheated for tons on UB). but i think they still have work to do and will–should–for some time.

  ttwist said:

considoring our lead pro here at TPE has just signed a very lucrative contract with the site

ttwist…do you have more information on this??  He's not listed here: …..poker-pros and the conversation I just had with an internal contact I have over at UB exact words were, “…Bigdog over as a friend of the site.” A “friend” of the site, and a pro of the site, are two drastically different things from what I understand.  Bodog just happen to come up in a conversation that had nothing to do with what we are talking about here at all, and I didn't want to probe any further, but would like to educate myself as to what you are referring too.  Do you have a press release or something you can link me to?
 

Thanks 

Hagbard Celine said:

that's one of the things i like about UB. they've moved past representatives like helmuth and duke who just pretended the scandal wasn't there.
 

Oh my….you might want to do some more research (if you care)…you think Seboc and Leggit are legit on this whole thing??  Seboc had nothing to do with it all, but at $30k a month he is, and has, said anything at all that UB wants him to say.  I heard him make comments on a podcats just 2 weeks ago that I know for fact simply aren't true.  Joe might not have been directly involved, but he is certainly in bed with them now.  Leggit was there, still is there, and new light is coming to surface now about how deep he may have actually been involved in the whole thing.  If you don't want to read about it all, just go listen to the last 2 podcasts of CR (can I say that here?  If not, mods please remove) prior to the latest one released…both episodes are all about UB and what has happened, and one of them is what created all this new stir all over the place.

Duke didn't leave, her name is Seboc now.

also, i don't want you to think that there's stuff–poker related–that you can't talk about here. i like to think we have a pretty open community. as long as what you're saying isn't unsubstantiated rumor and you are respectful then say whatever you want.

OK…that is good to know…and even further proof why this place is so good!  You would be amazed at some of the things I have gone through because of stuff a site won't allow.  I have never understood a community that we can't point out stuff to each other to grow just because it is a competitor or the like.  That has never made any sense to me at all!  You can't mention rake on one site, a training site on another, a poker related tool on some….it's a joke with what our objectives are which is to grow as a player!  I just got a 6 month ban this morning on a site just for mentioning this place!  So you can say I have been walking on eggshells to say the least!

BTW…totally dig your videos!  Been through 2 of them so far, and working on 2 more right now!  Haven't even seen anyone elses yet so awesome intro for me!!!

I am a recreational player and i played solely on AP last year.  I feel like the tournaments are just way softer then anywhere for 2 reasons.  players are just bad and don't understand lots of concepts on stack sizes ( way too many players will be willing to blind down under 10bb's for 1)  and secondly the field sizes are smaller with deeper structure.  this gives you maybe 10-12 decent players a tourney to get through.  i had my best year mtt wise there last year and i have alot to learn still. 

Also there was a small scandal in mtt's last year that involved a player near top of tlb.  I believe it was foolishgolf with some others i think Amandaw maybe were sharing there hole cards and soft playing each other.  Don't remember how they found out someone told me during a mtt and i searched it on p5's for the info.  When they did find out the players were banned from the site so i do think that they have taken some turns in the right direction to cleaning the site up.  For what its worth i played foolishgolf a bit in midstakes tournies on there and even with the cheating i never thought he was that good really just standard pretty much. 

Even with cheaters which all sites have them they just havent caught them yet the games are very beatable imo.

AP name is sm9145 if you wanna sharkscope me. 

agreed, there are cheaters on every site i am sure.  you just have to play your A game and the rest will fall in place.

sm9145 said:

agreed, there are cheaters on every site i am sure.  you just have to play your A game and the rest will fall in place.

So unfortunate but true.  You will find cheaters on EVERY site.  It was just much easier on UB because the size of the fields are smaller, so there's more of a chance of being able to collude 🙁  Luckily, they were found to be cheating and taken care of.