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Is A 10 a shove in this spot?
millhouse8
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July 23, 2010 - 3:22 am
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I was down to about 14 bbs after losing a hand.  Get A 10 UTG and shove.  Get called with 55 and flop and ace, but a 5 comes on the turn.  Is this an ok shove UTG? 

rcfromtn
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July 23, 2010 - 3:37 am
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I shove there, but I think it is probably closer than I realize.

Post the HH next time. Makes it easier to know what the table looks like stack wise and blinds and whether or not there are antes and stuff. Lots of info in the HH other than AT UTG 14bb's do I shove

JDOG1645
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July 23, 2010 - 4:29 am
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ship

millhouse8
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July 23, 2010 - 7:23 am
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I'm not good about getting my hand histories.  There were 77 people left in the 4K GTD.  The top 63 paid.  I think the blinds were 200/400 with 25 antes.  The table was crazy aggressive and I had been completely card dead.  A 10 looked like a monster to me. 

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Metasploit
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July 23, 2010 - 7:30 am
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I shove here also. UTG also gives you a little more credit but with 14 bbs there isnt much you can do but ship it all pre-flop. Run better next time 🙂

Hagbard Celine
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July 23, 2010 - 11:06 am
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i think it's a fold. it's definitely really close, though, and at an aggressive table you often have to make marginal shoves because you're not getting enough spots to be first in. that being said you're shoving into 8 players and 14BB really isn't that short.

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July 23, 2010 - 11:11 am
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its close but i like shove. 1 more orbit you have 10 bbs. get it in

millhouse8
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July 23, 2010 - 12:01 pm
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Thanks for the input guys.  Hagbard, it's interesting that you say 14 bbs isn't that short.  I actually used to only think I was short if I was 10 or below.  It seems that most everyone considers below 20 bigs short now. 

rcfromtn
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July 23, 2010 - 9:42 pm
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thanks for posting on this one Hag……I thought it might be close and probably on the fold side, but typically whenever I am in a spot that I think is really close like that I lean towards the aggressive play and shove…….good to know that I am closing in on a more optimal push/fold game.

tlr230
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July 23, 2010 - 11:55 pm
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I think this is a fold as well.  An important part that you left out which could be the deciding factor is if there are antes involved or not and how big they are compared to the blinds.

Also, what are the stacks in the blinds and of players behind you?  That could have an effect on potential calling ranges and drastically sway this from a boarderline fold into a clear push or clear fold.

As is based on the info you provided, I ran this through SnG Power Tools (recommed purchsing this to figure out these push/fold spots) and assuming you're utg with ATo with 14bb and no antes and everyone behind you covers, this is a -ev shove.  I assigned what I thought to be proper standard calling ranges to each position.  If your hand was suited, it's still -ev.

Assuming there are antes, your shove still comes out to be -ev, just slightly less than no antes, and this is still with ATs, so it's worse if your hand was offsuit.   Now if you were one position later (UTG+1), this becomes a +ev shove, but barely and not even gaining a sb in chipEV (which is minimum you edge you should look for when considering a shove).

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