hawkeyeK9 said:

I dont like the line. You gotta 3bet this flop when he donk leads.

with the greatest of respect. thats not what i was asking…

going on my image and reads on villain that i specified im not raising flop since he's only continuing with hands that are beating me.

His aggression factor of almost 9 over 70 hands means he pretty much NEVER calls a bet but will almost always fold/raise. Plus im playing pretty tight and he has shown a lot of respect to my raises in previous hands. so when i do raise im pretty much telling him i have a King and allowing him to play perfectly against me. By flatting I'm giving him rope and acting weak allowing him to value bet for me, since he pretty much always does bet. Im not concerned with my flop play for those reasons.

so to my initial question, do you fold river knowing that in a previous hand he bet small for value on the river in order to get paid off? doesn't me under-repping my hand and his bet (asking me to go away) factor into the decision at all?

On the river FOLD! I understand the fact he’s aggressive but you definitely don’t want to showdown here. I think 3 bet on the flop or turn is best play. With his all-in on the river it’s a hero call.

You want to raise on the flop or turn to gain control of pot. If he reraises, the villain is checking the river not shoving. It’s the best play for +EV. The villain has control of this pot from the flop inducing the all in shove. If your “instincts” are incorrect you are left crippled with 17BB.

His donk-lead on the flop is almost always a pretty weak hand. Sometimes a very very strong hand. If I raise, given his tendency to never flat (AF – 8.7), he’s most likely folding or re-raising. If he folds what do I gain? If he re-raises how do I like my hand now? Ok I get it in with the FD pretty standard, but I don’t like it since I know I’m behind far too often and I’ve wasted my positional advantage in the hand. So I really really don’t like the raise on the flop. Like I said, it gives away that I have a king and allows him to play perfectly. If I had AQ or TT then I probably would raise.

There are arguments for raising turn but again I want to get value from his weaker Kx or 9x so I decide to continue my passive (I have a weak hand or a draw) line. I probably raise here if I know he’s not re-raising or folding in response.

The flop and turn plays as it does because I have position and a good read on my opponent. I would definatley look to get the money in quicker if I was in the SB not on the BTN. But I think I knew where I was in the hand the whole way, even though I didn’t have ‘control’ and played passive… Bigdog bet-raise-shove moves are great if your playing loose aggro and get paid off with any trash. but I was playing tight and I believe I played it for maximum value (flop and turn) given my image/read/position.

I strongly disagree with the above statement – with respect.

Sure there are donks that pay attention to nothing but their cards. But there are plenty of players making money at these stakes that are paying attention. Especially in the latter stages of tournaments once the complete noobs have departed. ‘Opponent player types’ is one of the first chapters in any beginner poker book, and one of the next things people are taught about right after what hand beats what.

How are we as small stakes players expected to improve our decision making skills if were advised to completely omit a pretty important fundemental factor in the decision making process.

Your basicly advising people to play more like a fish…

Oops sorry. Had no idea I was coming across that way

I do enjoy a good reasoned debate – being a philosophy fan, if I’ve got a point to make I’ll usually make it. There is absolutely no intention to be combative i guess it’s just in my nature.. I thought it was part of the learning process to exchange ideas and iron out each others flaws – If anybody thinks I’m intending to upset them or troll or flame them I sincerely apologise.

I am very sorry and like any good poker player i will ‘adjust’

benf1 said:

I am no great player but FWIW I like the way you played this given your read on him. I dont see why you would want to raise on flop or turn when you already have a very strong made hand AND a draw. Raising flop only allows him to fold if he's beat. On the river, I think its a definite call given your line and his image. Besides, what exactly could he have that beats you: AK is reraising pre, trips on flop prolly wouldnt donk lead, same for K9, JQ ?! I think you are almost always ahead and would put him on a missed flush draw … and I thought that before seeing the solution. So good call and nicely played imho.

All the best,

 

B

Really like the thinking here. I pretty much feel exactly this. The only problem with calling is its super tilting when you call and he rolls over QJ but I think you can call and be good here a reasonable amount of time.