A A A

Home Forum MTT Poker Strategy Icimizer - weird chip EV spots

Topic Rating: 5 (2 votes)

Icimizer - weird chip EV spots

ColdZer0

Playing Freerolls

Members

Forum Posts: 20

Member Since:
October 16, 2015

Offline

December 19, 2015 - 7:06 pm

Hi, I’ve been using Icimizer 2 a lot recently to review my shortstacked hand historys but I came across some weirds spots that I don’t really understand.. Hope someone can explain what makes Icimizer come to these results

1) When I’m shoving from 20bb UTG into 8 other people that all have 30bb it tells me the worst profitable pocket pair to shove is 10s but when I’m shoving from the same position with the same stack size into 8 people that have 50bb instead even shoving pocket 6s is profitable.. Why does the stack size from the other stacks matter in pure chip EV, I’d understand if this was on a final table but why should I expect 50bb stacks to call me less often than 30bb stacks when I’m shoving UTG if I’m calculating for pure chip EV? If anything shouldn’t I be shoving tighter into 50bb stacks because they don’t risk their entire tournament life by calling and can therefore call wider?

2) Again I’m shoving from UTG with 20bb into 8 other players with 30bb stacks each, Icimizer tells me all suited aces are profitable shoves from this spot but when I’m in the exact same spot except this time with 15bb, only ATs+ is a shove.. why am I supposed to shove wider with a bigger stack and tighter with a shorter one? Shouldn’t it be the other way around because I’m risking to lose more with a bigger stack size to get the same amount of blinds?

3) So as mentioned before Icimizer listed all suited aces as profitable shoves from UTG with 20bb if everyone has me covered.. but if I’m in MP+1 instead and everyone has the exact same stack size, only A8s+ is a shove.. again, shouldn’t it be the other way around? Why am I supposed to shove tighter from a later position if there are way less people that could possibly call me?

Hope someone can explain, Icimizer really confused me with these results, it almost feels completely random..

joelshitshow

Playing The Prelims

Members

Forum Posts: 582

Member Since:
February 20, 2015

Offline

December 20, 2015 - 2:04 pm

I will post some ignorance while we wait for a more qualified response 🙂 I’m guessing the answers have to do strictly with math rather than intuition. But I say this having a very limited knowledge of ICMizer. (I know what it is. I haven’t used it.)

1) I wonder whether it has to do with 2 better hands being less likely to call you if the stacks are deeper. If I have 30bb, why am I more likely to call you with 77 or A9 than if I have 50bb? Is there more value in an eventual triple-up if I get called by a later position because my own chipstack needs help? I think about the old days of online poker (maybe it still happens today) when the tournament begins, everyone has 1,000 chips with 10/20 blinds, and some punter goes all in every hand until he either busts or doubles up.

2) You’re more likely to be called with a shorter stack because you have less fold equity. That means you need a narrower range to have the same EV.

3) I don’t think this is it, but the people who have yet to act are more likely to have a good hand because everyone in front of you folded, right? Or maybe it has to do with how others would range you—that is, your opening range is perceived to be tighter UTG vs. the button, so that affects V’s calling range. As a result, you need a tighter opening range to be ahead.

mykhalzyruskane

Small Stakes Grinder

Members

Forum Posts: 76

Member Since:
December 18, 2015

Offline

December 20, 2015 - 4:27 pm

I think Joel may be right. I’m not familiar with Icmizer at all by any means. But it sounds more mathematically driven than intuition or known player tendencies. But at the same time it doesn’t sound all that incorrect either when comparing to what I personally do.

If you are shoving 20BB into me when I have 30BB with so many peeps to go, I may or may not shove back with mid-high pocket pair or better depending on table dynamics. Late game, I am more likely to make this call given a value to double or triple up. If I have 50BB, I may make a looser call. Again it depends on how I see the other players and vise versa.

Joel, I have seen some tables on ACR where starting chip stacks are 1000 10/20, but they’re usually a freebuy and/or turbo/hyper tourneys.

Joel’s #3 … I tend to agree with.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
41 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)