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(1 votes) 
June 3, 2012
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No reads on the guy, just seemed like a standard player. However if you look at his bet sizing and his range he is repping I think we can find a call on river but interested to know your thoughts?
*********** # 88 ************** PokerStars Hand #115790065468: Tournament #904226795, $8.00+$0.80 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XI (125/250) - 2014/05/06 23:17:53 NZT [2014/05/06 7:17:53 ET] Table '904226795 18' 9-max Seat #6 is the button Seat 1: Mr.Fllipp (9822 in chips) Seat 2: ASTARU (11113 in chips) Seat 3: sg1789 (10332 in chips) Seat 4: ItsInUrHead (8991 in chips) Seat 5: cdhjmb (12487 in chips) Seat 6: rileyalanna (460 in chips) is sitting out Seat 7: Liverpool015 (7833 in chips) Seat 8: wendella69 (13203 in chips) Seat 9: 2_Basic (3069 in chips) Mr.Fllipp: posts the ante 30 ASTARU: posts the ante 30 sg1789: posts the ante 30 ItsInUrHead: posts the ante 30 cdhjmb: posts the ante 30 rileyalanna: posts the ante 30 Liverpool015: posts the ante 30 wendella69: posts the ante 30 2_Basic: posts the ante 30 Liverpool015: posts small blind 125 wendella69: posts big blind 250 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Liverpool015 [Kc Js] 2_Basic: folds Mr.Fllipp: folds ASTARU: folds sg1789: raises 250 to 500 ItsInUrHead: folds cdhjmb: folds rileyalanna: folds Liverpool015: raises 888 to 1388 wendella69: folds sg1789: calls 888 *** FLOP *** [Jc Qh 4d] Liverpool015: checks sg1789: checks *** TURN *** [Jc Qh 4d] [5d] Liverpool015: checks sg1789: bets 1250 Liverpool015: calls 1250 *** RIVER *** [Jc Qh 4d 5d] [2d] Liverpool015: checks sg1789: bets 5750 Liverpool015: calls 5165 and is all-in Uncalled bet (585) returned to sg1789 *** SHOW DOWN *** sg1789: shows [8h 8d] (a pair of Eights) Liverpool015: shows [Kc Js] (a pair of Jacks) Liverpool015 collected 16126 from pot *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 16126 | Rake 0 Board [Jc Qh 4d 5d 2d] Seat 1: Mr.Fllipp folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 2: ASTARU folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 3: sg1789 showed [8h 8d] and lost with a pair of Eights Seat 4: ItsInUrHead folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 5: cdhjmb folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 6: rileyalanna (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet) Seat 7: Liverpool015 (small blind) showed [Kc Js] and won (16126) with a pair of Jacks Seat 8: wendella69 (big blind) folded before Flop Seat 9: 2_Basic folded before Flop (didn't bet)
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I'm not wild about 3betting a MP raiser with KJo unless you have a read that he's opening too wide or folding too much to 3bs. Why do you think you should have bet the flop? I agree that river call is good, like your whole postflop line really, but realize that you're just playing a defensive/guessing game, and that's going to happen a lot when you 3bet KJo from OOP. It's hard to make a strong hand, so you'll end up just checking and bluff-catching with it a lot. Better to fold pre IMO.
October 6, 2010
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Threads are short when Mr. Brokos posts first, but before I saw his post I was thinking fold pre too.
Postflop is good
June 3, 2012
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Foucault said:
I'm not wild about 3betting a MP raiser with KJo unless you have a read that he's opening too wide or folding too much to 3bs. Why do you think you should have bet the flop? I agree that river call is good, like your whole postflop line really, but realize that you're just playing a defensive/guessing game, and that's going to happen a lot when you 3bet KJo from OOP. It's hard to make a strong hand, so you'll end up just checking and bluff-catching with it a lot. Better to fold pre IMO.
Hey, thanks for the reply.
I just checked my HUD stats, he was playing 28/25 over 50ish hands with a fold to 3bet of 100% 3/3.
I think usually if we are 3betting OOP we should be c-betting almost 90% of the time. I think by not c-betting we take overpairs out of our range. Do you ever play AA/KK this way?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Liverpool015 said:
Foucault said:
I'm not wild about 3betting a MP raiser with KJo unless you have a read that he's opening too wide or folding too much to 3bs. Why do you think you should have bet the flop? I agree that river call is good, like your whole postflop line really, but realize that you're just playing a defensive/guessing game, and that's going to happen a lot when you 3bet KJo from OOP. It's hard to make a strong hand, so you'll end up just checking and bluff-catching with it a lot. Better to fold pre IMO.
Hey, thanks for the reply.
I just checked my HUD stats, he was playing 28/25 over 50ish hands with a fold to 3bet of 100% 3/3.
I think usually if we are 3betting OOP we should be c-betting almost 90% of the time. I think by not c-betting we take overpairs out of our range. Do you ever play AA/KK this way?
OK in that case I like the 3bet. I don't think taking overpairs out of your range is such a disaster, as long as you're willing to call down with whatever the top of your range is (as you do here). I'd check QQ here, but not AA/KK.
July 12, 2013
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I put myself in this situation too often. Andrew, you say this is a “guessing game” of sort, which I dont totally disagree with, but what hands would you expect to check this flop that have us in trouble? AJ seems obvious but what other hands? I feel like we’re miles ahead. He bets over 1/3 pot turn and full pots river? Not sure what he’s trying to rep. Flush? A hand so good he x flop but wants to bomb pot on river?
September 29, 2012
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With his added HUD stats, I don't think we should be folding this hand preflop. I think I might prefer a call to 3 betting, KJo is right in the middle of his range. It is around the top 12% ish or so of hands. So either calling or 3 betting is fine.
However, I think calling might be a touch better, because we are in good shape against his entire range now, but we are not good enough to call off a 4 bet. If he 4 bets we have to fold a hand that plays well against his entire range. I would prefer to choose hands we are willing to get it in versus opponent and bluff hands that we don't care if he 4 bets, because we were behind his range anyway and we can fold.
With a hand that plays well against his range, but cannot call off a 4 bet, I think it is better to call than to 3 bet.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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jjp,
That's generally true, but it depends how much he will 4b vs call. If you think he only 4bets a very strong range, but will call a lot, then you can 3b for value and then fold to a 4b without folding away a lot of equity.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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lapp3r30 said:
I put myself in this situation too often. Andrew, you say this is a “guessing game” of sort, which I dont totally disagree with, but what hands would you expect to check this flop that have us in trouble? AJ seems obvious but what other hands? I feel like we're miles ahead. He bets over 1/3 pot turn and full pots river? Not sure what he's trying to rep. Flush? A hand so good he x flop but wants to bomb pot on river?
Flushes, straights, sets, two pairs (it's a pretty good/safe flop slowplay against Hero's 3b-checking range).
September 29, 2012
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Foucault said:
jjp,
That's generally true, but it depends how much he will 4b vs call. If you think he only 4bets a very strong range, but will call a lot, then you can 3b for value and then fold to a 4b without folding away a lot of equity.
Right, if they play straight forward after you 4 bet and will only 4 bet premium hands, then 3 betting in fine, but if he's capable of 4 betting light, calling is better.
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