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I Folded Kings Preflop (terrible?)
bane_rakes_u
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April 7, 2015 - 8:36 pm
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Hi I found myself in a weird spot recently at a 90man Knockout Final Table.

– 7 People left, with two people with less than 9bb.

 

UTG (2nd in chips with 37bb) limps.

I got dealt Kings with 18bb and decide to 3x.

Everybody folds and the UTG guy insta shoves.

 

He was pretty unrecognizable until that point so

I looked at his stats:  (Tracked Hands:320)

– VPIP 12 / PFR 8

– 3bet 0 (0 out of 42 opportunities )

 

After some cursing and getting instant headache I folded..

My thought was that he has Aces there quite alot.. But I dunno.. I feel so terrible folding that 🙂

 

So what do you guys think?

Kalculater
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April 7, 2015 - 10:06 pm
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I snap call.

He may have done that with some lower PPs even including JJ, QQ. He could have also done it with AK. All of the above make this an easy call.

 

If your plan was to fold your extra 15bb after you 3x, why did you raise his limp?

bane_rakes_u
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April 8, 2015 - 1:39 am
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well I never thought he would do that. He was just sitting around with his bigstack and I just found it so weird that the 1st 3bet shove this nitty guy does is one where he limps utg !?

 

AK is also pretty unlikely with me having two kings.

 

Also this is a micro $1.50 tourney and I have seen limp shoveing aces quite often.

I know people do crazy shit at this stakes which says even more I should call this. But the people who

do that generally have crazy stats like 40/3 .. 60/50 or stuff like that.

 

But maybe i shouldnt overthink stuff like this and shove instead of 3x..

Kalculater
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April 8, 2015 - 1:51 am
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I think that shoving would be a less profitable play then 3x and calling off because it gives nobody wiggle room to put in hands you dominate that might 3bet/shove behind (low PPs, AT etc).

 

Alot of people also limp/shove small to medium pocket pairs at those stakes.

 

You are way overthinking this in a $1.50 imo.

theginger45

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April 8, 2015 - 3:38 am
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Absolutely can't fold here. You just can't possibly have enough of a read on him to know that he always has aces here. Folding KK preflop is almost never correct unless you have a large amount of information on someone and it's a very unique or extreme spot. You just have too much equity versus any range that includes hands other than AA. I think he can do this with a lot of stuff besides aces, especially since it's just a random 90man KO SNG. There are some very weak players in those.

Foucault

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April 8, 2015 - 12:11 pm
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bane_rakes_u said:

well I never thought he would do that. He was just sitting around with his bigstack and I just found it so weird that the 1st 3bet shove this nitty guy does is one where he limps utg !?

 

AK is also pretty unlikely with me having two kings.

 

Also this is a micro $1.50 tourney and I have seen limp shoveing aces quite often.

I know people do crazy shit at this stakes which says even more I should call this. But the people who

do that generally have crazy stats like 40/3 .. 60/50 or stuff like that.

 

But maybe i shouldnt overthink stuff like this and shove instead of 3x..

Agree with what the others have said, just want to add that even with you holding two Kings it's still easier for someone to be dealth AK (8 combos) than AA (6 combos).

bane_rakes_u
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April 8, 2015 - 10:16 pm
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ok thanks guys .. really appreciate the answers!

SIGABA
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April 8, 2015 - 11:56 pm
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Yep, snap call.  I guess the good thing is you learned this after only spending $1.50 🙂

folding_aces_pre_yo
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April 9, 2015 - 6:58 pm
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if we were only going to isolate the limper here with very strong hands like QQ+ AK, what about with other parts of our range? hands like ATs+ KQs JQs+ 88+ stuff like that at these effective stacks. Do we just raise to iscolate with the stronger part of our range and shove with the middle of our range?

what im trying to say is ,, ain’t it better if we just balance and shove with the top of our range as well just like we would likely just shove here with 88+ AJs+ vs the limper. Or we are also raise iscolating with 88+ AJs for 3x pre (middle of our range)? just like we are with the top of our range?

for instance , When we have 18bb and we’re dealt 88/99 it’s quite difficult to play post flop if utg calls, so i’d much rather shove with these rather then 3x it pre vs the UTG raiser and if i were dealt say AA/KK in this same situation, i’d play it the same way as i would with 88/99

I know it’s quite possible that we may lose value when we do shove with the top of our range , though there’s going to be times were the limper still decides to call…though i know its less likely they’ll call as they have no fold equity, but still there’s a remote possibility.

I just think its important to balance our shoving and 3x range , so play the strongest part of our range with the middle and mayb even weaker part of our range the exact same way, whether that’s shoving or 3x pre.

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