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how to proceed BvsB with top pr
bjizzle44
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July 29, 2010 - 9:03 pm
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flp top pr in a blind vs blind confrontation. villian bets out, i check raise to see where im at. then lead turn. wt should i do on river. how is my play so far and/or how should i proceed.  

Poker Stars $3.00 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t15/t30 Blinds – 8 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge

jasonfl420 (SB): BB = 38.3, t1150
BJIZZLE44 (BB): BB = 48.7, t1460
skindoggybra (UTG): BB = 56.7, t1700
Quarteira(G) (UTG+1): BB = 23.3, t700
Tbear0819 (MP1): BB = 39.3, t1180
Miguel.P_13 (MP2): BB = 48.7, t1460
Laslo111 (CO): BB = 132.2, t3965
diegorp83 (BTN): BB = 62.8, t1885

Pre Flop: (t45) BJIZZLE44 is BB with 3 of clubs K of diamonds
6 folds, jasonfl420 calls t15, BJIZZLE44 checks

Flop: (t60) K of hearts 6 of spades J of hearts (2 players)
jasonfl420 bets t30, BJIZZLE44 raises to t100, jasonfl420 calls t70

Turn: (t260) 2 of spades (2 players)
jasonfl420 checks, BJIZZLE44 bets t150, jasonfl420 calls t150

River: (t560) J of spades (2 players)

shortymurphy
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July 29, 2010 - 9:17 pm
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If he bets river I am folding.

lespaulgman
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July 30, 2010 - 11:40 am
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Definetly see what the river does. If he is betting 50% pot I'm calling as it looks like a 6 or a busted heart draw. I don't think I can give him credit for hanging around on a backdoor spade draw (even at this level guys don't chase backdoors). If he leads strong (60-75% or a pot size) I am folding and congrats to him and his Jack.

FkCoolers
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July 30, 2010 - 1:03 pm
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We raise, not C/R. We then bet in position once checked to.

What's the villain's action on the river? He's first to act – you'll get better replies if we know that.

I fold to a large bet (2/3 pot and up), call a smaller bet, and I just check behind if he checks.

jshilling09
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July 30, 2010 - 1:41 pm
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does anyone else just call the flop?  I don't like building a big pot with top pair bottom kicker in any situation.  I think pot control is important here, because it leaves you with easy decisions the next streets.  You could easily be facing a 400 chip bet on the river here, where if you just call the flop, then bet/call the turn the pot will only be around 260 on the river and you are facing a smaller bet.  Also calling the flop lets him barrel his bluffs, while raising eliminates all the hands you are beating except for maybe very strong jacks.

JDOG1645
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July 30, 2010 - 1:58 pm
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FkCoolers said:

We raise, not C/R. We then bet in position once checked to.

What's the villain's action on the river? He's first to act – you'll get better replies if we know that.

I fold to a large bet (2/3 pot and up), call a smaller bet, and I just check behind if he checks.


+1

FkCoolers
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July 30, 2010 - 3:30 pm
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jshilling09 said:

does anyone else just call the flop?  I don't like building a big pot with top pair bottom kicker in any situation.  I think pot control is important here, because it leaves you with easy decisions the next streets.  You could easily be facing a 400 chip bet on the river here, where if you just call the flop, then bet/call the turn the pot will only be around 260 on the river and you are facing a smaller bet.  Also calling the flop lets him barrel his bluffs, while raising eliminates all the hands you are beating except for maybe very strong jacks.


 I don't hate the flop raise because we have position. I like a check behind on the turn for pot control when it's this early in a tournament and we don't have that strong of a hand. If the river brings a heart and he pots it (because at the lower stakes so many will just pot the river when they hit their hand) we can release the hand at the low cost of 130 chips.

I like the flop raise because he'll come over the top with a better hand and on the turn he'll check with a worse hand and we get a free card. When he just calls we can narrow it down to a Jack, QT, and a heart draw so often. Doubt bottom pair calls the raise and a 2nd barrel but god bless him if he wants to donate.

bjizzle44
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August 2, 2010 - 11:06 am
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JDOG1645 said:

FkCoolers said:

We raise, not C/R. We then bet in position once checked to.

What's the villain's action on the river? He's first to act – you'll get better replies if we know that.

I fold to a large bet (2/3 pot and up), call a smaller bet, and I just check behind if he checks.


+1


srry for late reply on results but I havent been on as much lately. i couldnt find the results of this hand but i do remember the outcome. the river wen ck ck and he actually had a better k, k8o to be exact. just wanted to know if my play was at all totally off.

thx tpe

 

bjizz

JDOG1645
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August 2, 2010 - 11:24 am
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FkCoolers said:

jshilling09 said:

does anyone else just call the flop?  I don't like building a big pot with top pair bottom kicker in any situation.  I think pot control is important here, because it leaves you with easy decisions the next streets.  You could easily be facing a 400 chip bet on the river here, where if you just call the flop, then bet/call the turn the pot will only be around 260 on the river and you are facing a smaller bet.  Also calling the flop lets him barrel his bluffs, while raising eliminates all the hands you are beating except for maybe very strong jacks.


I don't hate the flop raise because we have position. I like a check behind on the turn for pot control when it's this early in a tournament and we don't have that strong of a hand. If the river brings a heart and he pots it (because at the lower stakes so many will just pot the river when they hit their hand) we can release the hand at the low cost of 130 chips.
I like the flop raise because he'll come over the top with a better hand and on the turn he'll check with a worse hand and we get a free card. When he just calls we can narrow it down to a Jack, QT, and a heart draw so often. Doubt bottom pair calls the raise and a 2nd barrel but god bless him if he wants to donate.


Im not big on the raise flop because we have a small ball hand we should play small ball. Also thats such a draw heavy board I dont want someone with a draw to get aggro and force me to laydown what is the best hand on the flop.  FkCoolers you then say you like a check behind on the blank turn. But what are we repping when we raise flop check behind on turn? A weak hand with draw or air most of the time is played  that way. If I was the other guy I would be betting huge on any river card that doesnt complete a draw because of the way it was played….thoughts?

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