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(2 votes) 
Poker Stars $50 1R 1A
This guy was 16/11 over 20 hands, not much of a read on him and the other guy was like 40/8 over 12 hands.
No antes yet and pretty deep so i just flatted and decided to basically play it like a small pp.
Poker Stars $50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t25/t50 Blinds – 8 players
Hand Conversion courtesy of Tournament Poker Edge
Harry Ducks (CO): t3770 75.40 BBs
manfredHB (BTN): t2705 54.10 BBs
twr75 (SB): t5000 100 BBs
mm209 (BB): t5306 106.12 BBs
Moody5599 (UTG): t1211 24.22 BBs
mickywilly74 (UTG+1): t5463 109.26 BBs
BigUnit2 (MP1): t6526 130.52 BBs
ddrufnek (MP2): t5525 110.50 BBs
Pre Flop: (t75) mm209 is BB with 9
9
1 fold, mickywilly74 raises to t150, 1 fold, ddrufnek calls t150, 3 folds, mm209 calls t100
Flop: (t475) 4
5 6 (3 players)
mm209 checks, mickywilly74 bets t400, ddrufnek folds
He bets t400 into t475. What about this betsizing?
To me his bet sizing is saying please go away. I think whether he bets half pot or near pot we should probably be calling with an over pair and this board texture. Given that we are also deep makes this easy enough to see the turn and re-evaluate. He plays pretty tight based on the stats, what have you seen him do post flop?
June 11, 2010
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I'd probably float this one and see what happens on the turn. It is a very coordinated board and it is early and he is deep so there is a chance he is playing ATC and hit it, but the almost pot size bet seems like he is trying to represent and is trying to make it as scary as possible. I think you are deep enough to call the bet and see what he does. If he checks on the turn and it is a favorable card for us (9, J, Q, K or A) I would bet into him, I think that line becomes very believeable that you are holding overcards.
clearly tryn to get all over cards to fold. float flop. re evaulate turn. my line is to lead on turn if turn doesnt likely hit his range. likely folding with ak aq from ur lead on turn. give up if he calls
bjizz
July 3, 2010
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lespaulgman said:
I'd probably float this one and see what happens on the turn. It is a very coordinated board and it is early and he is deep so there is a chance he is playing ATC and hit it, but the almost pot size bet seems like he is trying to represent and is trying to make it as scary as possible. I think you are deep enough to call the bet and see what he does. If he checks on the turn and it is a favorable card for us (9, J, Q, K or A) I would bet into him, I think that line becomes very believeable that you are holding overcards.
I don't know about that. What combinations of hands containing those cards float a multiway flop of 4 5 6 rainbow out of position?
Doubt his bet into 2 people is AK, AQ, KQ and the like. Could be a medium pair or large pair that just wants the hand over since you're playing deep.
I think better cards for us besides hitting a 9 would be the board pairing on the turn, or cards that complete a straight draw.
Yeah – I prob call here 90% of the time if his cbet was a bit smaller, but I raised t1100. I wasnt comfortable with ch/calling three streets with my stack – how many cards were favorable for me on the turn anyway? He cant have AK or AQ w his cbet? – or A3, A6, A7?
He insta shoved and I folded.
Not sure how I played the hand
July 3, 2010
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mmfitter said:
Yeah – I prob call here 90% of the time if his cbet was a bit smaller, but I raised t1100. I wasnt comfortable with ch/calling three streets with my stack – how many cards were favorable for me on the turn anyway? He cant have AK or AQ w his cbet? – or A3, A6, A7?
He insta shoved and I folded.
Not sure how I played the hand
Pretty sure a 16/11 player isn't raising A3, A6, or A7 UTG+1 and then monkey jamming this flop over a normal sized check-raise.
This is not a flop where you c-bet into two people with AK, AQ, or KQ. It misses you completely and is pretty likely to have hit one or both callers in some capacity.
After he jams I think he flopped a set.
It seems weak but honestly I might have just folded to the close to pot sized c-bet with my 99. In position I'll float but OOP floats can be dangerous and spewy.
fk- the 16/11 is over 20 hands – that means abs zero
The main reason I posted the hand in the first place is the cbet sizing – hints of the player being a fish or net very good. And a bad player may very well lead cbet into 2 pple w AK, AQ, A7, A6 in my opinion. U see them raising pre w Ax oop all the time.
If he had bet t375, I don't think I would be thinking about any of these things. I would just play the hand as I would vs an unknown.
This is my thought process here and I'm wondering if it's flawed. Am I looking way too much onto this?
FkCoolers said:
mmfitter said:
Yeah – I prob call here 90% of the time if his cbet was a bit smaller, but I raised t1100. I wasnt comfortable with ch/calling three streets with my stack – how many cards were favorable for me on the turn anyway? He cant have AK or AQ w his cbet? – or A3, A6, A7?
He insta shoved and I folded.
Not sure how I played the hand
Pretty sure a 16/11 player isn't raising A3, A6, or A7 UTG+1 and then monkey jamming this flop over a normal sized check-raise.
This is not a flop where you c-bet into two people with AK, AQ, or KQ. It misses you completely and is pretty likely to have hit one or both callers in some capacity.After he jams I think he flopped a set.
It seems weak but honestly I might have just folded to the close to pot sized c-bet with my 99. In position I'll float but OOP floats can be dangerous and spewy.
FKCoolers brings up a great point in the fact that IP and OOP is such a huge consideration in this hand and that fact alone can totally change how we should play the hand.
I don't know 'bout you guys, but this guy is showing a lot of strenght. Betting almost pot versus 3 villains is pretty strong. In a 3 dollar tournament I call, but this is a 501r1a and often I just see here AA or KK. No time to mess around, just let go of the hand. If villain would be any good, he can put you on the hand you actually have.
You interpret the bet as weakness, but villain could easily bet this amount, because of the draws.
Also the action is not closed, which is another reason to just fold
July 3, 2010
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Exactly. I read it as a lot of strength and looking to punish the hell out of drawing hands and weakish mid-pairs.
I mean I like floating here atleast. But given the fact your so deep. I kinda like raise so you can get a better idea on turn. If he flats and turn is none threatning then I would fire turn as well. If I raise flop and he reraises I would release hand. As for his bet sizing its hard to tell because your just so deep. So I have no real thoughts on that.
bigdogpckt5s said:
I mean I like floating here atleast. But given the fact your so deep. I kinda like raise so you can get a better idea on turn. If he flats and turn is none threatning then I would fire turn as well. If I raise flop and he reraises I would release hand. As for his bet sizing its hard to tell because your just so deep. So I have no real thoughts on that.
I think folding is much better versus an unknown than floating. I really don't like to raise here, thus turning our hand into a bluff.
If I have notes on the player I could raise or flat, but versus an unknown I think both calling/raising is worse than to fold
July 3, 2010
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BigDog's line is really aggressive but better than floating. In my mind:
Raising > Folding > Flatting
Hate the OOP flat here as a line. I mean what's our plan? Check it down the rest of the way and hope for a cheap showdown? His c-bet would indicate that's probably not happening most of the time and if we lead the turn it just looks so donkish and if he calls we have no idea what's going on but have to assume we're behind.
I don't mind the raise, though. It's just not my style at this point in an MTT.
I choose to play differently with blinds so small and stacks so deep. I don't feel like I need to bloat pots OOP like this. Could be a leak of mine, though.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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passively calling here is how we end up on the river facing a pot sized bet and maybe an over or two on the board. I like a raise here because there's a % of time where he is bluffing and we don't ever capture that by simply folding plus we put in the same number of chips as if we called a turn barrel but with more info.
If we raise here to 1200 it costs us as much as calling a turn double barrel which he almost always fires and it allows us to pick up pots that we normally would have just folded. I hate just throwing 400 in here and then folding turn. It's a near certainty that if that's your plan you are just planning to lose 400 in this hand.
July 3, 2010
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SittingDucks said:
Folding > Raising > Flatting
Yeah. The more I think about it…
Because your line of thought is that we need to know if the guy can lay down a similar hand to ours, right? If he's never folding TT and JJ even to a raise and Turn lead on a scary board we're spewing chips.
If we flopped a set or the nuts are we check raising? It's unlikely the flop crushed the opener's raising range so what would the point be?
I think I'd take a line of check calling and leading the Turn with a flopped straight or set since it looks so donkish you might get re-popped by hands that would otherwise start to tighten up if we check-raise the flop.
OP asked me to check this thread out.
idk what to say really, it's a tough spot. there are no easy answers. FWIW i'd probably never lead out or c/r here. c/r/f seems completely backwards to me. if villain is going to barrel enough worse hands that c/c, c/f isn't good, then don't c/f the turn! don't turn your hand into a bluff OTF just because you don't want to make a tough decision OTT. if someone could explain c/r/f to me that'd be cool.
folding flop is totally fine. if his betsize is suspicious, and he is betting big into 2 other players, then fold and keep an eye to his sizing. flatting flop is totally fine, and if i flatted, i'd just proceed cautiously. just because sometimes i'll c/c flop and c/f turn doesn't mean that i'm always losing 400 in this hand.
as to your assumptions about the villain based on his sizing, i'm not sure what you mean. i think until proven otherwise just assume that a big bet is a big hand. there are players who bluff with pot-sized bets, but not enough imo to make any generalizations about pot-sized cbets.
so as to the rating scale, put me somewhere around flat~=fold>>>>>>>>>raise
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