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How to get no value when you flop the nuts
BennyBills
Lighting Money On Fire
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March 14, 2014 - 5:56 am
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FML…getting hit by the deck and butchering value. Vs slighty profitable low stakes Reg… Is this the perfect spot for a donk lead? Sizing? or go for the check raise? Turn 3bet looks way too strong right? And what does his reraise mean here? As played should I flat turn and donk river? Im lost here all I know is the way I played it I got the least value possible with the nuts.cry

 

Poker Stars €4.50+€0.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t350/t700 Blinds + t85 – 6 players – View hand 2453152
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

FishGarden13 (MP): BB = 46.7, t32672
DJMPH (CO): BB = 36.2, t25315
checkreise7 (BTN): BB = 32.5, t22784
Hero (SB): BB = 82.5, t57765
vassalias (BB): BB = 25.7, t17998
nono1900 (UTG): BB = 10.4, t7295

Pre Flop: (t1560) Hero is SB with T of clubs 9 of clubs
1 fold, FishGarden13 raises to t1400, 2 folds, Hero calls t1050, 1 fold

Flop: (t4010) 6 of diamonds 7 of spades 8 of spades (2 players)
Hero checks, FishGarden13 checks

Turn: (t4010) J of hearts (2 players)
Hero bets t1764, FishGarden13 raises to t4200, Hero raises to t8050, FishGarden13 folds

peppergrinder
Grinding Micros
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March 14, 2014 - 12:42 pm
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I like to respond to posts with my opinion even though my knowledge is shaky at best so that when good players answer later they can help you and also explain why my thinking is all wrong.

 

He possibly raised in MP with 2 broadway cards or a mid pair. When you check the flop he declines to c bet so probably not a mid pair. Doesn't look like this flop didn't really hit him it seems more likely to have hit you. He doesn't seem to believe your turn bet and possibly the J hit him so he raises to see if his JJ is good or if you're just taking a stab at it. If he had the flush draw on the flop he probably would have bet out. When you c/r he is afraid of the str8t and folds.

 

I guess you could have flatted his turn raise but that would have looked even stronger and you probably wouldn't have gotten any more out of him after that so I don't see the harm in 3 betting. Alternate line could have been check/call the turn if he's an agro player and you thought he would bet and make it look like a stubborn small pair or draw and see if he barrels the river again. Sometimes they just don't have anything to give you action. If he did have A high he might just want to check it down to see if he's good

Flicka12Bet
Grinding Micros
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March 14, 2014 - 5:11 pm
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It also look that the villian did not hit anything. It is usually hard to get good value if the other is not a real agro or if he does not hit anything.

If he would have hit two pair or a set you would have it all in by the turn…

OneTime1Time
Sunday Major
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March 14, 2014 - 9:57 pm
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It looks to me like Villian just didn't have anything in this specific example.

Flop goes check/check, so it's reasonable to assume you will stab with lots of your range on the turn. While the jack does hit a lot of his openening range, he should be betting that flop with most of the range it hits. I'm not sure why he raises on the turn, as he can only represent the J. You won't likely lead anything except strong J's and two pair or better (all of which is well within your range here). So his raise can only accomplish one of two things. 1 – fold out all bluffs which may barrel river or 2 – get called/raised and be completely dead in the water. 

Guess he didn't believe you had anything, and found out you did. I don't think any way you play this gets more value. If you flat, the river goes check/check 90% of the time and bet/fold everytime you lead.

MovesLikeDarvin

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March 20, 2014 - 1:16 pm
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this would be an acceptable line if he had a J, but also one when he has air and feels like bluff raising > folding on a board where you can have a lot of weak showdown value hands youre leading to protect.  i dont mind getting weird with this line, among the examples you mentioned, like bet/call, donk lead river. clicking it back on this flop looks far too strong IMO, either ch/r turn or bet/tank call turn, lead river. some players here cant help themselves when u donk small on the river, and will punish what looks like a blocker bet when they have air.

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