October 1, 2014
Hi guys, this is my first post on here and I hope atleast I've managed to follow the guidelines for Hand history review well enough.
So here it goes,
Poker Stars $8.00+$0.80 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t75/t150 Blinds – 9 players – View hand 2585057
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Hero (CO): t8059 53.73 BBs
Rottiesrage (BTN): t9733 64.89 BBs
Nezuki (SB): t9278 61.85 BBs
PKaiser (BB): t4670 31.13 BBs
r66ba0 (UTG): t2900 19.33 BBs
morrri (UTG+1): t5399 35.99 BBs
hamsterutz (UTG+2): t17015 113.43 BBs
NoT1meToLose (MP1): t3890 25.93 BBs
STEAMROLL3R (MP2): t6113 40.75 BBs
Pre Flop: (t225) Hero is CO with T T
4 folds, STEAMROLL3R raises to t300, Hero raises to t750, 2 folds, PKaiser raises to t1254, 1 fold, Hero calls t504
Flop: (t2883) 9 5 2 (2 players)
PKaiser checks, Hero bets t1011, PKaiser raises to t3416 all in, Hero calls t2405
Initially following PKaisers 4bet Preflop It wasn't even a full 2x the size of my 3bet which had my worried especially since he's in the small blind, and it is..PKaiser.
When we got to the flop and PKaiser commits himself for the rest of his chips I know i'm in trouble..I actually tank for a while thinking is there anyway for me to fold here…
The downside to calling I thought was I'm probably I'm way way behind to his 4bet range, AA,KK,QQ. Not that I actually did the math then, but it works out around 8% post-flop if I gave him that tight range..and my pot equity at that point 25% (sorry if my lingo is a bit wrong)
The upside was the odds for me to call were 3 to 1 and I would still have around 22bb If i fail to catch that 10…
Would a better poker player have the discipline to fold here at these stack sizes?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
You're right to recognize that you're basically set mining when you call pre-flop. You need to win about 10x what it costs you to see the flop you set mine, so in this case you're calling 504 and need to win 5040 on average when you hit. There's 2300 already in the pot and 3400 left in Villain's stack so you need to stack him just about every time. If you think he's basically guaranteed to have QQ+, which is reasonable in this situation, then you probably will stack him often enough, but you have to recognize that against that range you can't put money in the pot even if you flop an overpair. Be grateful that he gave you a free shot to spike a T on the turn, check it back, and be ready to fold if you miss. The problem here is that you made a good read pre-flop but then let that fly out the window and just played your own cards once you flopped an overpair.
October 1, 2014
Yeah thanks andrew for the feedback. You're completely spot on with your assessment…I just needed to hear it.
I lack discipline in some spots where I know better…
But do you agree IF i did have the correct discipline, It's an easy call preflop given the preflop odds I was getting to set mine? my implied odds are great to stack off if i do. So to call 504 and stand to win flop of 2300 + villians remaining stack of 3400= 5700. My odds of hitting on the flop around 1:8.. so it would seem profitable if he is always shipping when i flop a set…
I guess it could be player dependant in this spot or depending on my stack size..icm etc at that point.
Thanks for the feedback.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
The 8:1 is too optimistic because you won’t win 100% of the time that you get it in with a set. That’s why I use 10:1. You aren’t getting much in excess of 10:1, which is why I say you have to stack him nearly every time you flop a set. If his range is {QQ+,AK} you probably have to fold because there will be too many flops where you don’t get his stack but his range is still too strong for you to continue unless he will be 100% honest postflop (ie check AK and bet bigger pairs), which obviously in this case he was not.
July 12, 2013
This seems like a spot IP that would have been a better call than 3b. I’m sure not gonna speak for him but judging from listening to his podcast I would think this is a call not raise pre. Calling the raise and closing the action calling the 3b would be a better spot IMO.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
lapp3r30 said:
This seems like a spot IP that would have been a better call than 3b. I'm sure not gonna speak for him but judging from listening to his podcast I would think this is a call not raise pre. Calling the raise and closing the action calling the 3b would be a better spot IMO.
Good point. I think it's very close in a vaccuum and could swing either way with a read on the PFR, but yeah calling pre is very viable.
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