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April 11, 2015
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First time poster, although I have listened to most of the TPE and thinking poker podcasts so I feel like I kind of know this community. Anyways I recently satellited into a $1500 200k guaranteed tournament which will be about 3x bigger then anything I’ve ever played and I’m curious how I should go about preparing and playing it. I’m primarily a 1/2nl player in live games. I used to play a lot of tournaments online prior to black Friday and recently I’ve started playing some low stakes MTT on Bovada to get used to playing them again. Obviously I feel like the field will be tougher then I’m used to but the biggest difference is probably going to be the structure. Its a 3 day tournament with 50k starting chips(500bb on the first level) 40 minute levels day 1 and 60 minute levels after that. Should I plan on playing the early stages of the tournament super tight? even when the antes start on level 4 its only 25 antes at 100/200. Anyways I’d like to hear some of your thoughts about the differences of playing a higher stakes well structured tournament compared to well just about everything else.
February 20, 2015
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Welcome. I was the same way. I've listened to all the TPE podcasts and about a third of the Thinking Poker podcasts. (Time is the limiting agent. All the Thinking Poker podcasts I've listened to have been amazing.) I eventually joined about a year ago and am going through TPE University. My eventual response at the bottom will be based on what I've learned so far.
Answer these questions, and you'll get even better responses 🙂 It's unlikely to have answers to all of them, but every bit of context helps!
What percentage of the field are satellite winners?
How often does the venue have $1,500 tournaments? How about $200K guaranteed tournaments?
Will there be a chance at an overlay?
Are people traveling to the tournament or will it be mostly locals?
You mentioned how long the levels are, but how much are the blinds jumping from level to level? In other words, does it look like they're skipping levels? It sounds like the first 4 levels at least are “normal.”
Anyway, here is my advice. Watch what the others at your table are doing in the early levels. If everyone is playing tight because it's a big tournament and they're nervous, you can steal blinds and establish a loose image. Then you can tighten up and wait for good hands. If everyone is wild because they have such deep stacks then you can tighten up and wait for premium hands. Especially at the beginning of a tournament I would think your opponents will be more likely to play their own hands vs. trying to range you.
You play a lot of cash, eh? Your experience with cash games will help in the early stages because deeper stacked tournaments play more like cash games. Knowing when to adjust and understanding push/fold stuff will become more important as time goes on. Others can go into more detail about that. It's important, but I don't know enough to tell you the right things 🙂
April 11, 2015
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Very large portion of the field will not only be satellited in but just given seats by the casino. I think about 200 seats will be people that wouldn’t normally be bankrolled for something this large. I thought about including that info in my original post but I thought it was getting to lengthy.
As far as I know this is the first time this casino (cleveland horseshoe) has ever had a $1500 tourny.
No chance at an overlay. I expect at least 600 players
From the sounds of it there will be people traveling from at least near by areas.
Here’s a link to the structure.
I keep going back and forth in my mind about how to play the early stages and of course it will depend on the table a bit but I’m tempted to really sit back and barely play. I’d like to think I can take advantage early of all the players who shouldn’t be in there but honestly I shouldn’t be in there (my bankroll is up to around 3k) So I’ll probably give it a few levels to feel really comfortable and I normally play tourneys that way online anyways. I just worry that in a live tourny, especially with some good players my range will become very obvious and I could be giving up more equity then I normally would be when I actually wake up with a hand.
Anyways thanks for your insight. I appreciate it.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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One factor most people probably overlook is a very simple one – get enough sleep. I haven't played a great deal of live poker, but even one night of less sleep than usual during a period of several days of poker (for example, if you're playing a few different side events and a main event to follow) can really have a huge impact. Other things like diet and exercise are important too.
There are adaptations you can make at the table (most of it depends on how your table plays, so there's not much blanket advice that's useful), but everything off the table should either be the same as usual, as far as is possible. If you like to work out or meditate before playing, do it. If you usually listen to music, do that too. Whatever gets you relaxed and into your zone the easiest. Don't make it a huge big thing where you sit in your hotel room for 2 hours beforehand thinking about how nervous you are. It's just another tournament.
January 20, 2014
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OK, Here's my routine before a long live tournament. This is what works for me. To reiterate what Andrew said: GET A LOT OF SLEEP THE NIGHT BEFORE, NO ALCOHOL. When you wake up, down a quart of water; your brain needs to be hydrated to think properly. Wake up several hours before, and workout. I stretch for 30 minutes then lift weights and go for a run. Then I eat a healthy breakfast, and pack food in a cooler that you can keep in the car. You don't want to be eating pizza on your 20 minute break. Most people don't think about their meals when they play live. They don't think ahead and that they will be sitting at a poker table for the next 16 hours. That's where you are different, and you're prepared. IT WILL GIVE YOU A HUGE EDGE.
When I get to the casino I am 30 minutes early or more and I scope out where the tournament is taking place. I look at all the tables (in some cases hundreds, other cases three tables, in your case 60 tables) and I imagine in my mind the final table and me heads up and I win the tournament. Then I start working backwards … I imagine myself at the final table heads up, three handed, four handed, five handed, etc. Then I image 2 tables left, then 3 tables, 4, 5, 6, etc until I get to the 100 tables (or however many it is). What I am doing is I am giving my subconcious a road map for success. If you can visualize it before it happens, then you are much more likely to go there in real life. This will give you that ray of hope when halfway through the tournament you look around and see 20 tables left, you are down to 10bb, and you're already thinking about the drive home. This will snap you out of it (because you've seen yourself shiping the tournament) and focus your attention back to making the best possible decision you can RIGHT NOW, ON THIS HAND.
After visualizing the tournament, I go back out to my car and listen to a meditation tape. Elliot Roe has some exclusively for live MTTs. You can get them at Pokermindcoach.com. I sit in my car, and completely relax, and get into the zone. Sometimes I even miss a few of the first hands. But the important part is, when I step out of my car and walk back into the casino, I fully expect that I will be making day two and bagging chips. My mindset is, “I am a professional, this is my tournament, and I am going to win!”
When the breaks come, they usually come every 1.5 / 2 hours. I eat something every 3 – 4 hours; every 2 breaks. About 400 calories. So every other break I have a small meal – MAKE SURE IT'S HEALTHY. You don't want to eat too much or you will get the sleepy food coma. Your oxygen and blood gets routed to 3 different areas of your body: your muscles, digestive system, and your brain. If you eat a big meal halfway through the tournament, most of your body's resources are going to digesting your meal, and not thinking about your hand. Eat small meals every 2 breaks, and this will ensure that your brain is getting the bulk of it.
Drink water. I bring a water bottle and make sure I am drinking at least 1/2 a liter of water an hour, usually more. This does two things. 1. It keeps my brain hydrated. It allows me to think more clearly and for very long periods of time; and 2. It makes me have to pee about once an hour. So every hour, I stand up, walk to the bathroom, and this is my mini break. Your brain can only stay truely focused for so long. It needs a break. I know that I miss a few hands. In the long run I know that I am folding Aces every 1/220 hands, but I think it is a +EV decision. When I take my break I leave when I am in late/middle position, and I get back just in time to take the big blind. You don't want to leave when you are on the button and come back in early position. That's a big no-no. Time your breaks right.
When I get the dinner break, I go out to the car, eat another 400 calorie meal, and listen to another meditation tape. After playing for 8-10 hours, I need a recharge, and the hypnosis tape is the perfect solution.
As far as strategy, you said you are mainly a 1/2 cash game grinder. I would recomend playing a lot of online tournaments. You said you play on Bovada so I would play there. The buy in doesn't matter. Put up as many tables as you can muster and play for at least 8 hours straight, taking a break for a few minutes every hour, just like you will do at the live event. What you are doing here is the baseball's equivalent of batting practice. A professional baseball player will go to batting practice and hit 200 balls in an hour. Then he will go to a 3 hour game and have 3-5 at bats and see 8 -20 pitches. It's just batting practice, that's all it is.
Get perfect on shove ranges. You can do that by downloading and printing a shove chart here. Check out your live tournament and see what % the antes are in relation to the blinds and have that shove chart next to you when you practice online. When you practice, and when you are in the shove ranges, try to guess what is a shove and what is a fold before you reference the chart. Guess and then check; you will learn faster that way. Soon you will “just know” that something is a shove and another is a fold. It will be unconscious.
Abuse the $$$ bubble. When you are getting down to the $$$ bubble, many have probably satellited into this tournament, just like you. They have paid $150 and now they have a chance to win $2000 if they can just survive 3 more people. Run them over. Know who the pros are at your table, and know who the Satties are. Steal their blinds, 3bet them, and put extra pressure to end their run right now just before they can make the $$$.
Watch a lot of TPE videos, especially Marc Alioto and Andrew Brokos on Value Targeting: It's called Getting Paid and you can watch it here.
I hope this helps, this is what works for me. I would be curious what other pros do in preparation for a long live tournament.
You said that you listen to the TPE podcasts and Andrew's Podcast. That's good! So do I. I've listened to all of them, some more than once. I'm going to insert a shameless plug here. Myself and another TPE member have a podcast, called the Heads Up Poker Podcast. You can find it on iTunes or Stitcher Radio, or you can listen directly on our blog,headsuppokerpodcast.blogspot.com
Thank you for the great post, and I wish you the best of luck in preparation and your tournament. That's exciting! Buenos Suerte!
~Steve
April 11, 2015
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good stuff guys.
the tournament is more then 2 weeks away and I’ve already started binge watching TPE videos like a GoT marathon. When I take it down Ill definitely owe some of the success to you guys.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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A lot of good advice in here already! (And I’m flattered to see TPP mentioned).
“I’m tempted to really sit back and barely play”
I’m a little unclear on what this means. I think it would be good, for your own purposes, if you try to be as concrete as possible about adaptations you’re going to make in any situation. Not just “play tighter” but “fold X, Y, and Z hands from early position that I would usually play” or something like that.
That said, I don’t think you should change your play significantly just because this is a higher buy-in that you’re used to. Poker is poker, and even the best players are getting dealt two cards from the same deck you are. It’s possible that your default strategy in an online tournament is sub-optimal, but this isn’t the time to make radical changes. Just do your best to play within your comfort zone.
And because I can’t resist some scolding, you probably shouldn’t be entering satellites whose target tournaments are not within your comfort zone!
Finally, remember that no matter how well you play, you probably won’t cash. That’s not a knock on you, that’s just a fact about tournament poker. You need to approach this as a learning opportunity and a fun experience, not your one chance at a huge score. If you cash, great, but focusing too hard on trying to cash is one of the best ways to tank your EV.
Have fun!
April 11, 2015
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Haha that all makes a lot of sense.
It was one of the first satellites with 2 seats gaurenteed and I guess nobody realized it so there was about a 1k overlay and I couldn’t resist giving it a shot for $100 bucks.
As far as sitting back and barely playing goes I think that was probably a bit of an extreme statement. But I do think my style will be a bit tighter untill I’m feeling really comfortable. Typically I like widening my 3 betting range to suited connector and hands that have real good playability post flop in position when stacks are this deep, I’ll probably eliminate this, at least until antes become relevant and hopefully I feel comfortable. Hands even as good as AJ in early position I could see myself folding because even if I hit I won’t feel comfortable if the pot starts getting big. And honestly I’d rather just fold then try and play small pots with 500bb. What’s the difference between 500bb and 550bb early on. No matter how many times I watch your hand reading series my reading ability won’t be quite as keen as yours mr. Brokos so I think I’m better off just staying out of as many uncomfortable spots out of position as I can haha.
I really appreciate all the feedback guys, I can’t say I was expecting this many responses to my first post, especially from the pros.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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fly2314 said:
Haha that all makes a lot of sense.
It was one of the first satellites with 2 seats gaurenteed and I guess nobody realized it so there was about a 1k overlay and I couldn't resist giving it a shot for $100 bucks.
Yeah, hard to say no to overlay. That's why I hedged with “probably”.
As far as sitting back and barely playing goes I think that was probably a bit of an extreme statement. But I do think my style will be a bit tighter untill I'm feeling really comfortable. Typically I like widening my 3 betting range to suited connector and hands that have real good playability post flop in position when stacks are this deep, I'll probably eliminate this, at least until antes become relevant and hopefully I feel comfortable. Hands even as good as AJ in early position I could see myself folding because even if I hit I won't feel comfortable if the pot starts getting big.
There's a big difference between AJs and AJo, but yeah, AJo in early position isn't particularly valuable even with 100BB stacks. You don't have to, and probably shouldn't, 3-bet all of your suited connectors and suited Aces. That's just correct play, not any sort of adaptation. I think that picking a few of the very best candidates (A5s, A4s, whatever is the best Axs you wouldn't call with) and three-betting those will be enough. It doesn't have to be an all-or-nothing decision between never three-betting light and doing it every time you get a suited connector.
And honestly I'd rather just fold then try and play small pots with 500bb. What's the difference between 500bb and 550bb early on.
At least $100, in this tournament.
No matter how many times I watch your hand reading series my reading ability won't be quite as keen as yours mr. Brokos so I think I'm better off just staying out of as many uncomfortable spots out of position as I can haha.
I really appreciate all the feedback guys, I can't say I was expecting this many responses to my first post, especially from the pros.
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