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How much do back door draws matter?
mhonan981
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February 11, 2015 - 1:00 pm
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I must admit that I did go several years into learning/playing the game before contemplating back door draws when playing a hand and am while I'm more conscious of them now, I'm still not 100% sure how I should be thinking about them at the table.

 

I thought I remember reading somewhere that a backdoor draw essentially adds 1 out to your hand's equity. For example, you have Ah9H on a 6c7h8d board (to make it simple assume your 9 and A are no good) and having the back door hearts takes your 8 outs from the OESD and approximately turns it into 9 outs (for purposes of calculating your hand's equity). Is this correct?

 

Also, I'd just be interested in hearing how others factor these backdoors into their decision making, whether it be calling a bet knowing you are behind, good bluffing opportunities, etc?

Thanks!

(Also, sorry if this is the wrong area to post this) 

BionicApe
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February 11, 2015 - 2:46 pm
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I’ve always used the one out per backdoor draw to calculate my equity on the flop, but I usually don’t give it full credit because I don’t have much confidence in that value and usually having a backdoor draw is a factor I consider more for implied odds than anything else. It’s a contributing factor when deciding to continue and how I intend to play the hand.

Of course, I need a better reason to continue than just having a backdoor draw. There’s a decent chance I’m only going to get to see one card because if I brick and face a big turn bet I’m probably going to have to give up.

If I have other outs, or believe I can outplay my opponent and I think my opponent has a decent enough hand to pay me off, then I will continue often even if I’m not getting the exact pot-odds necessary.

Backdoor draws vary in value from hand to hand, going down in value against a strong opponent likely to push me off my hand on the turn and astute enough to make calculated fold on the river, and up against weak, passive opponents or calling stations that will pay me off. If I’m going to get to see a river card then I’m much more likely to continue.

I think it would be a mistake to look at a backdoor draw as just 4% more equity on the flop, but not as big a mistake as thinking a backdoor draw adds zero equity to your hand. It’s true value is highly circumstantial and depends a lot on your ability to discern the nuances of the hand and have the confidence in your play to make the right moves at the right time.

TheClubber
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February 11, 2015 - 4:02 pm
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For me continuing with backdoor draws is analagous to preferring suited starting hands pre-flop. The value is more in sem-bluffing potential than in the absolute equity. I'm more likely to float if there are a number of good turn cards that improve my equity where I can play more aggressively.

mhonan981
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February 11, 2015 - 4:42 pm
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TheClubber said:

For me continuing with backdoor draws is analagous to preferring suited starting hands pre-flop. The value is more in semi-bluffing potential than in the absolute equity. 

Thanks, I think this makes a lot of sense. Having a backdoor definitely helps me make a float/fold decision OTF, (especially in deeper stack cash games) where I think I can try and take the pot away more comfortably when one of the backdoor outs comes on the turn.

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