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February 17, 2014
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Hey there,
This is a question I had on my mind for a while.
I read this a couple of times and my coach told me several times that is extremely important not to let yourself under 10bbs since youre losing your fold equity if you do so. I followed this advice firmly for a long time shoving ev- spots just to not let myself drop from 10 bigs.
Nevertheless I started noticing that this rule is not such important for some pros, for example, in the first vid of TPE University, Danny Noseworthy seems to not give a f*** about this and he lets his stack drop from 10bbs several times losing some pushes that I wouldnt hesistate twice in taking!
So my questions are:
– How important is it really not to let yourself under 10bigs?
– Is it neccesary to take ev- spots if necesary to stay above 10bbs?
– Does this depends on the type of game you're playing (turbo/hyper/regular/6 max/etc)?
– The main reason why they will tell you not to let yourself under 10bigs is because you lose fold equity. Is it worth it to lose fold equity to wait for an ev+ spot to shove? Is it ok to play without FE?
Thanks in advance for your answers!
January 15, 2013
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I think the Danny vid you reference is a turbo video. If that is the case there is a BIG difference if you are referencing non turbo play.
My shot at answering your questions are:
1) Not so important if you want to min case, but very important if you want to win MTTs
2) Yes. Doesn't mean you're just shipping 7-2 off and ignoring ev, though. If you are unfamliar with the Nash equillbrium, find a Nash chart and you'll get the idea
3) Yes. Not nearly as important turbos and hypers where relative stacks are much shorter
4) Probably not, again unless your intent is to min cash.
Also, if your blinding down to this level on a fairly regular basis, I suspect that you are not taking full advantage of 18-24 bb 3 bet shove spots.
Interested in the opinions of others, tho, as always!
TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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mike makes some good points. Im pretty guilty of letting myself get too shot sometimes. Although, Ive also been told that my patience is a strength sometimes. Of course, much of it is dicated by the table, your cards and the “spots” you pick up.
January 8, 2014
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I used to do similar here. I work in M level as it is easier for me to know my true level, and I play games with and without Antes.
I think the thing that messed me up most was the small standard bets I did when at 13-15bb's too preserve my 10bb's (M5).
I've just started shoving at bb13-14 against players who were likely to play back at me. And like Mike said above, using your reshove stack before even getting to that spot is important too, I'm re shoving aggro players at an 15-23bb's depending on their stack size and their fold equity.
It depends on the info you have on players, dynamic and stack sizes, but I think it it exploitable when we set an exact level to preserve our stack. It's good to know where you stand, but if you set it in stone people will notice it.
When I'm that low I look to shove in position. I think that is most critical when short stacked. I try to get past mid field and wait for the CO or HJ position. Then I simply use probabilities. If I have A9o, in the CO, I assume my A is good and shove. Similarly with the HJ. Any A9 or above, even KQo in the CO or HJ will do. Comments appreciated.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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im still almost any 2 cards at 9 bigs and below in late position and find myself finding more folds nowadays in mid and early position and being more paitient then in years past. Turbos is a different story where 10 bigs is heaps.
February 14, 2013
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Hmm, I tend to not be terribly conserned about it and just look at each spot as it is. I might play a bit too closely to nash, but I guess my logic is that taking bad spots will be losing chips/money in the long run. I remember back pre-black friday I used to shove WAY to wide in those 45 man sitngo's and got absolutely destroyed in the 75$ ones, so maybe I'm overcompensating for past mistakes 
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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There's never really a good reason to take a -EV preflop shove. Every decision you ever make should be based on EV. The difference is that with a small number of big blinds, it's much harder to tell exactly how +EV each shove is, especially compared to the EV you gain by staying above a certain stack size.
So, the better way to think about it is that while you shouldn't ever take a -EV preflop shove, there are some spots where you'll want to take any preflop shove that's breakeven or better to avoid losing fold equity (say for example, with 5bb UTG), and some spots where you'll want a certain threshold of profitability before being willing to risk a bigger stack (say for example, it folds to you on the button with 12bb – taking a breakeven shove here would be unnecessary considering you can still fold several times and wait for a more +EV shove spot to arise).
Obviously you can only know which spots are +EV through ongoing analysis, but that's just like anything else. When it comes to in-game decision-making, if you really believe something's neither profitable in cEV terms nor in ICM$EV terms, there's no reason to do it.
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