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Hey Guys,
How do you handle a major downswing? I am going through a major one right now. I have lost a majority of my bankrolls on a couple of sites. I have taken a little break from playing, I have dropped down in buy-ins, I have watched videos and I have gone over HH. I don't know what to do.
It seems every play I make, I end up losing. I am losing 80/20's left, right and centre. I can't seem to win a coin flip to save my life. I can't even cash in tournaments right now. It is becoming very disheartening. I feel like I am making right decisions and I am have been able to put people on the right hands but still end up losing in the end.
Any advice on how to get through this? Should I consider in getting some coaching?
Well the good news is that we all feel your pain. Everyone, and I mean everyone, goes through huge downswings. The thing about them is they pretty much wipe out your confidence and your sense of good and bad play. My best advice is wipe the slate clean everyday. Make a conscious effort to focus as much as possible and wipe out negative thoughts after each bad beat. If you do this each day and you know you are playing with a clear head, the results will come. Dont think about the money lost and make sure to be playing with good BR management. If you are playing with focus and just forgetting about the bad beats as soon as they come, you downswing will end soon. GLGL
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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Hawkeye's post is a good one. There's really not much you can do if it's just bad luck. However, if you can afford a coach I'd go for it because you don't know if you are objectively analyzing your play. If you can't get a coach, post hands and chat with other players to see what they think of your play.
TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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in the middle of perhaps my biggest downswing and it's hard to handle. But Ive been working hard and keep on grinding. Had a few near misses last night and the near misses always seem to be followed by wins, so i feel its coming!
Keep your head up!
Like KB, I'm in the middle of my biggest downswing (Nov-Feb was my best ever) So I guess with the ups, comes the downs. I know it's going to change. Instead of playing, I've been trying to study a bit more. Doing all the other things mentioned already. I have faith in myself, the advice that Ttwist, BG, Phil Ivey and all you other guys give me.
Wish me luck at Borgata this weekend. I need a good live score to perk me up.
June 22, 2010
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I too am experiencening the darkside of variance. I try to seperate myself from my BR. I have a % of my paycheck go to poker and I consider it lost to the pot, which helps when I take beats. Still it is hard sometimes, had a great Saturday last week and lost about 40% this week but BR still above what I hade. Best advice reomove yourself from BR. When I notice my BR going down, I drop stakes.
"Your either in Sheen's Korner or your with the trolls."
October 6, 2010
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i have recently come out of a 65 BI downswing which was my worst ever, and am now in the middle of my best upswing pretty much.
best thing i did was continue playing, but i dropped out my biggest games and substituted them for smaller ones. i.e my ABI is $12ish now and includes anything from $3r to $30 normally, but i quit playing the $15s and $26 and $5r tourneys and started playing a bunch more 5fos and even some 2fos instead.
because most of my volume is smaller tourneys i started to get a few small wins which changed my mindset a lot because at least i wasn't losing $100 a night anymore, and then, as i turned from downswinging to more breakeven, i started adding in the higher games again but just a few at a time.
my mental state changed considerably because by lowering my buyins, i was losing $50 a night if i bricked everything off instead of $100, but still kept my ABI at a level where wins were still meaningful.
i also looked at a few spots where i bubbled the tourney and i realised i was getting too frisky with the 12-20bb stack and taking the high variance approach when my risk of busto was high. so i tightened that up as well, which allowed me to get a few min cashes. then all of a sudden i won 200 buyins in 2 weeks 😀
another thing you should look at is whether you are actually rolled properly. a year or so ago i would play on the very marginal edges of bankroll management, maybe 100 to 150 buyins, and it mean that a 20bi downswing really hurt. but now i am prolly rolled for 300 buyins and a 20bi downswing is like water off a ducks back. so maybe a less agressive bankroll strategy would be beneficial too.
sorry i am rambling, but my advice would be to limit your shot taking and higher buyin tourneys, play slightly less but not stop completely, spend that extra time to find leaks, and spend time looking to see whether your BRM strategy is good.
good luck with it
Great response bennymecca!!! Kudos and thanks form the advice. Been going thru my biggest degree of variance since Jan. One of my main problems was playing low-mid stakes. I was looking for that one big score I. MiniFTOPS miniUBOC etc…. Now I’m back down to the micros with 200 BI (Lost around 160BI At microstakes) I’m focusing now on BR management. Right now i’m sticking with the micro MTTs/SnGs only allowing 2-$15< shots per week. I'm still not getting enough volume in for where I want to be. I only less than 500 MTTs under my belt. Long way to go!!! It will definitely be a roller coast ride getting there.
Buddha
Thanks for the advice everyone! I really appreciate it!
I watch lots and lots of vids and return to playing when I've convinced myself I'm good enough. After a few days of watching vids I'm usually itching to play again.
Here’s a few tips for handling downswings that have worked for me:
Reduce everything. Not just average buy-in but things like number of tables and variance. To reduce variance, play smaller fields. Play 45 and 180 SNGs so you can book a few final tables as opposed to wading through a field of 4000. Look for non- or lo guarantee MTTs where you can win something nice but not have to play against the population of a small nation. Also supersatellites, while mechanical, really lower variance.
Take one night and just play freerolls, points, and with rakeback money. You’ll break the losing streak for sure.
One week I sentenced myself to one week of poker school. I only played one table but watched videos, surfed forums, etc. I learned a lot, and won money from the little I was playing. Good luck
October 6, 2010
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Great post and better replies. Really comforts me reading this as I feel im the only one playing as well as I an and not winning due to variance.
Im noticing that I bust out of MTTs a lot in 14th-30th place. I usually have at least a 30-40BB stack before the field decreases to the last 2 or 3 tables then I find myself loooking for 3 bet shove spots with my 10-25BB stacks. 3 of my last 5 MTTs have seen me bust out with 77<AJ ,88<KK and and missed flush draw that I 3 bet shoved on the flop. All 3 were for 15th place finishes.
Both my pocket pairs were shoved from middle position in an unopened pot. Am I being reckless here trying to take advantage of a near FT bubble?
Is this a leak?
Thought provoking blog on MTT's and variance here: …../mtt-pros/ there is a second part to it as well here: …..tt_pros_2/
October 6, 2010
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Stinger3388 said:
Great post and better replies. Really comforts me reading this as I feel im the only one playing as well as I an and not winning due to variance.
Im noticing that I bust out of MTTs a lot in 14th-30th place. I usually have at least a 30-40BB stack before the field decreases to the last 2 or 3 tables then I find myself loooking for 3 bet shove spots with my 10-25BB stacks. 3 of my last 5 MTTs have seen me bust out with 77<AJ ,88<KK and and missed flush draw that I 3 bet shoved on the flop. All 3 were for 15th place finishes.
Both my pocket pairs were shoved from middle position in an unopened pot. Am I being reckless here trying to take advantage of a near FT bubble?
Is this a leak?
October 6, 2010
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swet1 said:
Thought provoking blog on MTT's and variance here: …../mtt-pros/ there is a second part to it as well here: …..tt_pros_2/
bennymacca said:
Stinger3388 said:
Great post and better replies. Really comforts me reading this as I feel im the only one playing as well as I an and not winning due to variance.
Im noticing that I bust out of MTTs a lot in 14th-30th place. I usually have at least a 30-40BB stack before the field decreases to the last 2 or 3 tables then I find myself loooking for 3 bet shove spots with my 10-25BB stacks. 3 of my last 5 MTTs have seen me bust out with 77<AJ ,88<KK and and missed flush draw that I 3 bet shoved on the flop. All 3 were for 15th place finishes.
Both my pocket pairs were shoved from middle position in an unopened pot. Am I being reckless here trying to take advantage of a near FT bubble?
Is this a leak?
i found that i was shoving a little too wide when i had 18-22bb. in general terms this is “short” but frequently you are 10/15 or something like with this type of stack. i found that if i tighened up here slightly but not too much, i had a lot better result. i.e i used to shove QJo from mid pos and KQ utg etc but these are just unnecessary and less you are the shortest stack and you have 10-12 bb, not really when you have 18bb.
thanks for that… I feel I need to tighten up a bit in these spots
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