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(5 votes) 
January 26, 2014
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I'm not sure why i shoved here, i was contemplating raising 2x then folding a shove but just elected to shove and then…well..
What would normally be the best play here?
PokerStars – $1+$0.10|5000/10000 Ante 1000 NL – Holdem – 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4
UTG: 32.26 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 11.11, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
UTG+1: 18.96 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 40.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
Hero (UTG+2): 17.41 BB
MP: 34.93 BB (VPIP: 10.00, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 10)
MP+1: 14.43 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 42.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
CO: 7.39 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 16.67, Hands: 10)
BTN: 16.18 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 8)
SB: 10.72 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
BB: 7.32 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 10)
9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB
Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has 7
7
fold, fold, [color=red]Hero raises to 17.31 BB and is all-in[/color], fold, MP+1 calls 14.33 BB and is all-in, fold, BTN calls 16.08 BB and is all-in, fold, fold
Flop: (48.9 BB, 3 players) 5 J
A
Turn: (48.9 BB, 3 players) 5
River: (48.9 BB, 3 players) 8
Hero shows 7 7 (Two Pair, Sevens and Fives) (Pre 41%, Flop 13%, Turn 5%)
BTN shows T
A (Two Pair, Aces and Fives) (Pre 24%, Flop 3%, Turn 2%)
MP+1 shows J A (Two Pair, Aces and Jacks) (Pre 34%, Flop 85%, Turn 93%)
MP+1 wins 45.4 BB
BTN wins 3.5 BB
Should i have elected for my first though and to raise/fold to aggression? Could have kicked the cat when i pressed all in haha 😀
January 12, 2014
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Shoving can’t be that bad. Don’t feel like you have to raise because you have 77. If you plan to fold to any aggression you are turning your hand into a bluff anyways, and your hand flops bad. I think shove and open fold are pretty close here. Depends on the table, if its on the tighter side I’m shoving, and folding otherwise.
August 21, 2012
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According to my push/fold chat at 17.5 bb a +cEV shoving range would be : 33+ A9s+ A5s-A4s AJo+ K9s+ KQo QTs+ JTs T9s
Shoving isnt' a bad play at all here.
That said is it the most optimal play? I think raise/folding is okay if the table has been playing tight and we aren't worried about getting flatted alot. But in this specific instance I am looking at the stacks behind us that haven't acted. I see tons of stacks that will be reshoving on us when we open. I like to have a plan ahead of time which stacks I'm going to call or fold too.I think raise/calling may be the best line here because players often will shove wider assuming you are able to fold as opposed to calling. 44-66, J10, QJ will more likely fold to an open shove and players may be more likely to reship those assuming they have fold equity.
There is alot to consider and we haven't really establish a table dynamic over the course of 10 hands so alot of what I said above can be better applied with a stronger read of the table.
January 15, 2014
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I think shove or fold pre-flop. I don't like raise-fold. I think you are giving away too many chips doing that. Also with just a raise I don't want someone to shove over the top of me and leave me with a tough decision with 7-7. I'd rather shove and take that play away from them and put them to the decision for their tournament life. It's sucks they flopped an ace, but I don't mind the shove. If you don't feel confident with the shove then fold pre-flop.
TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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no need to second guess your play here, lets look at it…you cant just fold 77 at this point and limping to play flop dependant just to fold whiffed flops is really a line to avoid, so what other options do you really have? 2x opening allows trolls to play back at you and getting flatted is an abso nightmare. Maybe live i can open…cbet and fold leaving myself 13 bigs but i hate this as well, these are the super tough and frustrating spots in the game but ultimately end up dictating your sessions. i have zero issue with rip pre and is how i play this spot
November 18, 2013
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17bb seems like a bit of an over shove to me. Don’t mind open/calling one player and open/folding to multiway action. It’s only 2 bb at risk, we can get that back with one shove or resteal. I don’t mind nitting it up for a bit if it doesn’t work out and feel more comfortable open shoving 15 bb or less. 17 bb is a bit of a grey area for me
November 4, 2013
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Don't be results orientated here. It's not a horrible spot to shove. I think open folding is the only real mistake you can make here with 17BB. I would consider opening something like 22222 and folding to an over shove or a 3b. You don't have enough history with the players here to determine if this is a good raise/call spot, so I'd lean more to raise/fold.
Just for the record too, the BTN call is absolutely horrible.
January 26, 2014
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Thanks for all your input on this hand. Really made me realise just how different the play is in MTT's compared to cash.
This might sound like a stupid question (and probably is) but should i devise a chart or playbook for when im at certain stacks? I seen someone mention earlier they had a push/fold chart for 17bb's?! Would it be worthwhile me doing?
Thanks once again 🙂
July 12, 2013
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I was tweeting w Loxi about this type of situation… And the concept is taken from DJ… If were willing to shove what about betting 9.5bbs and shoving flop 100%? Its a concept DJ talks about in his new video series and Ive been thinking about it a lot lately. Pros and cons…??
February 28, 2013
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Just for the record too, the BTN call is absolutely horrible.
Hi, can you help me understand why is this a horrible call..? Is it because of the other player still to act and that A10 just isn’t that good even against a 17.5bb shoving range.. Though a10s doesn’t do bad against the range quoted by chuck blaze…
Keith
Ps not asking in a funny way, genuinely asking to help me understand as often find myself in spot like this…
January 29, 2014
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The call from the button is horrible because he’s not against 1 opponent, he’s calling both shove and all in from mp+1. I haven’t fully got my head around charts and all the maths but in that spot I would be folding on the assumption that there is either at least 1 a-x (with x probably being broadway with the players behind) and one PP. So if I do call, it’s not really a flip. I can’t really imagine a scenario as played where I’m not getting crushed with the buttons hand. I’d be folding his had in this situation 99% of the time, and only calling if I knew that both could be really light, but I don’t think both ever can be at 14bb effective.
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