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How bad is the Turn shove? (bad or really bad?)
ltcolumbo
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July 27, 2014 - 5:04 pm
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$6k MTT – 100/200 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 14.33 BB
Hero (UTG+1): 27.23 BB
MP: 15.83 BB
MP+1: 78.45 BB
CO: 44.98 BB
BTN: 50.1 BB
SB: 68.43 BB
BB: 22.3 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.3 BB) Hero has  8heart Aheart

fold, [color=red]Hero raises to 2 BB[/color], fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (5.3 BB, 2 players)  5spade 2heart 6heart
BB checks, [color=red]Hero bets 2.65 BB[/color], BB calls 2.65 BB

Turn: (10.6 BB, 2 players)  4spade
BB checks,

I have NO idea why I think I am good here now..  the 4 is in the check-call wheel-house

[color=red]Hero bets 22.48 BB and is all-in[/color], BB calls 17.55 BB and is all-in

River: (45.7 BB, 2 players)  6diamond

Hero shows  8heart Aheart  (One Pair, Sixes) (Pre 48%, Flop 51%, Turn 26%)
BB shows  4heart 4club  (Full House, Fours full of Sixes) (Pre 52%, Flop 49%, Turn 74%)
BB wins 45.7 BB

Foucault

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July 27, 2014 - 10:17 pm
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Can't be too bad with a draw this good. I'd be a lot LESS inclined to shove if I thought I was good. The better question is whether he'll fold anything, which also relates to whether you'd ever play a hand other than a big draw this way.

ltcolumbo
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July 28, 2014 - 9:19 am
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I had time to ponder this hand last night, and I recall feeling like the “hand was getting away from me” and I needed to shut it down now. I am disturbed by that because I also believe that thinking along those lines has been my biggest leak in the past.

All that being said… is there a better line to have taken here post flop?

Foucault

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July 28, 2014 - 11:24 am
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I think I'd check the turn, as it's generally a bad one for your range. You probably have few if any 4s in your range and just a couple combos of 87, half of which will also have flush draws. You might be better off just not having a betting range at all on the turn. If you do choose to bet this, you need to think about what you are representing and how you would play that hand. This is a pretty ideal bluffing candidate to balance your value range on the turn, I'm just not sure you can/should have one. Would you check an overpair?

ltcolumbo
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July 28, 2014 - 12:11 pm
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would I have checked an overpair on the turn at the time I was playing this hand?  I would have shoved 77 or 88 to be sure, probably shoving 99-AA.

 

Should I be shoving an overpair on the turn?  I think not for the same reasons as before.  I dont think I should be “trying to conclude the hand” but rather looking at the 4 as a horrible card and checking an overpair to get to the river as cheaply as possible.

 

(I would, however, still be willing to shove a set on the turn.  Too bad I did not have one.)

Rok
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July 29, 2014 - 4:03 am
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I am never shoving here, seems fishy to me. I think another bet of half pot will have same effect, but you stay in tournament when you dont hit. If he has nothing he folds (like on your shove), if he has some draws you are mostly always better except spade of course.

Gsmyth5
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July 29, 2014 - 7:53 am
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Andrew, if you're checking the turn with your entire range what part of that range becomes a good c/f / c/c / c/r candidate and where does Hero's hand sit in that spectrum?

bennymacca
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July 29, 2014 - 9:38 am
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i like check-raising or check-calling depending on reads here. 

 

overbet jamming just looks like flush draw, i.e a hand that you just want to win with here. 

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