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(1 votes) 
September 14, 2014
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#Game No : 692937730 ***** 888poker Hand History for Game 692937730 ***** $125/$250 Blinds No Limit Holdem - *** Tournament #68586888 $10 + $1 - Table #17 9 Max (Real Money) Seat 6 is the button Total number of players : 9 Seat 1: _DENGER_ ( $2,861 ) Seat 2: Ber_G ( $3,105 ) Seat 3: toroid1127 ( $10,999 ) Seat 4: berliner024 ( $6,010 ) Seat 5: mnk73 ( $2,333 ) Seat 6: MasonSpb ( $5,534 ) Seat 7: serg0013 ( $10,333 ) Seat 9: london_ace ( $2,830 ) Seat 10: Gregori2010 ( $3,150 ) Ber_G posts ante [$30] toroid1127 posts ante [$30] berliner024 posts ante [$30] mnk73 posts ante [$30] MasonSpb posts ante [$30] london_ace posts ante [$30] Gregori2010 posts ante [$30] _DENGER_ posts ante [$30] serg0013 posts ante [$30] serg0013 posts small blind [$125] london_ace posts big blind [$250] [ 3, 2
, T
] ** Dealing river ** [ K
November 18, 2013
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With 10BB I say you're too short to flat any bet. I would want about 18BB here before I consider flatting an option. Not sure what others woud say is their threshold before they consider having any calling range.
In his spot, if I hit 2nd pair I'd check and let you bluff. You shouldn't have a premium pair bigger than 10s, you probably don't have AQ, KQ, or QJ in your range. He's likely to have the best hand and probably better off getting you shove worse like you did than getting you to call with worse.
September 14, 2014
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villains raise pre was bad though!
September 14, 2014
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like i said i’d usually fold as well pre , but apparently folding here would be a mistake …i think we should be calling from the bb so damm often here.
November 18, 2013
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Then give an argument that's more specifc than “so damn often”. Your positional advantage is greatly diminshed by the low SPR (2:1) once you call. Get specific.
Your hand is suited but it's trash. If he shoved ATC you would need 43% to call profitably. 32s vs a range of ATC has only 36% equity.
You're also going to miss the flop “so damn often”. You only get a flush draw on 11% of flops. What is your plan the 80% of the time you don't have a flush draw, straight draw or 2 pair? It's hard to get an OESD or 2 pair. Any pair you hit, villian is likely to have 2 overs if he doesn't have a better pair already. If he shoves on an Q72r flop, are you going to call off with your bottom pair?
Also, if you think his raise is bad, can you better exploit it by shoving than calling? How much fold equity do you need to compensate for your fairly trashy hand?
November 18, 2013
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folding_aces_pre_yo said:
like i said i'd usually fold as well pre , but apparently folding here would be a mistake …i think we should be calling from the bb so damm often here.
Apparently according to whom? What are the arguments on either side? On the pro side – you're getting great odds and you see a flop in position. On the con side – your hand is crap, your stack is short and your villain has a 4x your stack.
One main goal of any strategy game is to put yourself in a position where you have an advantage.
Tournament poker has different types of advantages that you want to maximize
– Card advantage – your range is stronger than his
– Positional advantage – you act last
– Stack advantage – you can threaten him when he can't really hurt you
– Skill advantage – you can outplay him
The only advantage you have when you call here is position, and it is minimized by your shallow stack. It's hard to outplay someone when you don't have cards or chips.
September 14, 2014
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Nice response clubber, so pretty much as long we know we’ve made an ev+ play then all is good.
Calling here does have some expected value though given what you have said , folding would not be bad. You just have to weigh out both sides of the coin and figure out which is most profitable in a given situation.
April 10, 2015
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Agree with clubber, and do think calling here is horrible, despite the odds. You’re basically in push/fold mode, have. No fold equity and cannot afford to lose some more chips while not hitting the flop
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I'd be curious to see the shoving ranges of those of you who think Hero should never call this raise. You'll have to shove well over half the hands you're dealt to prevent Villain from profitably raise-folding any two cards.
Clubber, your arguments against calling don't address the pot odds Hero is getting. “Trash” is not a useful way of describing hands in these wide range situations. Everything you say about how often Hero will miss the flop applies to Villain as well. In other words, when you flop a pair, it will be the best hand more often than not. Yes, you will end up folding a lot of flops, but that's OK considering the pot odds you're getting.
You're right that position matters less with such shallow stacks, but the fact that your hand is “trash” also matters less. The reverse implied odds that come from situations where you flop a pair and your opponent flops something better are also minimal, so all you have to do is re-evaluate your equity vs a wide range on any given flop and then go from there.
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