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September 14, 2014
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#Game No : 757971023
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 757971023 *****
$75/$150 Blinds No Limit Holdem – ***
Tournament #77078874 $4.50 + $0.50 – Table #19 9 Max (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: CRF450BABY ( $5,000 )
Seat 2: BochasCz ( $3,135 )
Seat 3: nelegal2013 ( $4,970 )
Seat 4: FierceBerry ( $5,258 )
Seat 5: london_ace ( $5,440 )
Seat 6: gyvince91 ( $15,241 )
Seat 7: mickeyzee72 ( $14,469 )
Seat 9: 3nilPicSid ( $7,653 )
Seat 10: alexkopter ( $4,075 )
BochasCz posts ante [$20]
gyvince91 posts ante [$20]
mickeyzee72 posts ante [$20]
3nilPicSid posts ante [$20]
alexkopter posts ante [$20]
FierceBerry posts ante [$20]
london_ace posts ante [$20]
nelegal2013 posts ante [$20]
CRF450BABY posts ante [$20]
mickeyzee72 posts small blind [$75]
3nilPicSid posts big blind [$150]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to london_ace [ A
, T
]
alexkopter folds
CRF450BABY calls [$150]
BochasCz folds
nelegal2013 folds
FierceBerry folds
london_ace raises [$450]
gyvince91 folds
mickeyzee72 folds
3nilPicSid folds
CRF450BABY calls [$300]
** Dealing flop ** [ K, Q
, 8 ] $1305
CRF450BABY checks
london_ace bets [$450]
CRF450BABY calls [$450]
** Dealing turn ** [ 5
] $2205
CRF450BABY checks
london_ace bets [$1,102]
CRF450BABY calls [$1,102]
** Dealing river ** [ A ] $4409
CRF450BABY bets [$2,978]
london_ace folds
** Summary **
CRF450BABY did not show his hand
CRF450BABY collected [ $4,409 ]
hey
no reads , but he’s likely to be a loose passive opponent.
thoughts when v shoves river? i think v could be bluffing with missed draws otr or they could have got there with JTs. I dunno if a loose passive opponent is bluffing here that often, doubtful imo.
cheers 🙂
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I like. Of course he could be bluffing. That doesn’t mean calling is necessarily profitable. What features of your hand make it good for calling or for folding?
April 30, 2015
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I like the fold on the river, but I am thinking about the turn bet here. Your hand didn’t improve on the turn and if the villain is a loose passive opponent, he is staying in with many draws and worse pairs on the turn. You are making the pot to be big enough that the villain can shove (2900 into 4500). FWIW, he might even be playing QJ or KJ this way, trying to shove to show strength on the river. I think he wouldn’t be shoving if there was 2200 in the pot OTR.
December 30, 2015
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What hand can you put V on that a) gets to the river and b) either improves on the river or makes the river a non-scare-card. Seems bluff heavy to me. Like a busted draw that is reping the Ace or hit the A with a worse kicker.
– You have both straight and flush blockers too, so less likely he has JTs. JTo seems less likely by the river to me as well.
– Would KQo call down and not get it in on the turn?
– I think it would be rare to see AA, KK, QQ, AK or AQ take such a passive line from preflop.
– The only somewhat obvious hand I can think of is AJs if we think V doesn’t at least min raise pre.
AcXx with a worse kicker seems plausible to me.
December 30, 2015
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Oh, I like Navin’s point. Villain could be calling down with a K, if he put you on a K or draw I guess the A on the river could be something that didn’t scare V. Possible, but I think V checks and probably folds since so many draws have an A. I’ve definitely seen some odd river bluff-shoves though.
September 14, 2014
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@foucault , the features of my hand that makes me think that river is a call is because we have the T, so its less likely v has JTs. i’m not sure which features of our hand makes it good for folding.
@navinbits , so you think v is capable of turning a hand like QJ/KJ into a bluff otr? i doubt a loose passive opponent would do this. They’ll check these otr imo. As for my sizing ott i reckon going smaller would be OK as we can still get stacks in on otr whether we hit or miss, thats a bet of 1/3 pot which is around $735. I’d be looking to shove on most rivers that does not complete flush draws or straight draws, of course.
@fx if v had KQ or KJ i reckon they’ll call turn here and re-evaluate river , whether they should shove those hand ott depends on what they think my range is and which hands will call a shove that are worse then those.
April 30, 2015
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folding_aces_pre_yo, I have seen so many “go for the broke” shoves OTR with both nutted hands and hoping-to-get-folds hands. In fact, I have even made such shoves both wrongly and correctly. The point is, I would totally bet the turn with AK on a QJ85 board and call off the shove on the river as I beat almost all other aces. Now, with his shove, you are forced to doubt if your A is good. A check back on the turn might have given an opportunity to get a bet on the river from the villain for about the same amount that you bet on the turn, only now you can get to showdown for almost the same amount of chips.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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folding_aces_pre_yo said
@foucault , the features of my hand that makes me think that river is a call is because we have the T, so its less likely v has JTs. i’m not sure which features of our hand makes it good for folding.
A hand that’s good for folding is one that blocks V’s likely bluffing candidates, in other words, having a club in your hand is not a good thing.
December 30, 2015
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Foucault said
folding_aces_pre_yo said
@foucault , the features of my hand that makes me think that river is a call is because we have the T, so its less likely v has JTs. i’m not sure which features of our hand makes it good for folding.A hand that’s good for folding is one that blocks V’s likely bluffing candidates, in other words, having a club in your hand is not a good thing.
Hi,
Interesting. Exploring…
If I understand your point, holding a T or club reduces the chance of V starting with a draw in the first place. I usually think in terms of blocking outs, but I haven’t considered blocking the existence of opponent hole-card combinations (just specific cards, not as a way of discounting the probability of draw combos.)
Can holding a club discount a flush enough to make a difference? 1/13th of clubs is removed. Maybe the A or K due to those being considered more common starting hands. I guess the T can be weighted a bit heavier as it would be a common kicker or down to 9T/8T for suited hands.
The T seems more significant in its power to reduce straights. 1/4 of T are removed. Then again that still leaves 75% and V calling down to the river seems to add weight here too.
I think we were both thinking that the Hero’s T slightly reduces a draw as incentive for V to call flop and turn bets by removing the JT combo-draw from his hand. After thinking about it a little more I don’t think this last point makes much difference to the hand except for making the flush 1-out less likely on the turn and river.
I guess I’m still looking for that magical place where math and behavior meet to create a good decision.
September 14, 2014
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@navinbits, thats true, only thing is by betting turn we can get better hands to fold which includes Qx 8x and maybe get Kx to fold if we go for a triple barrel.
@foucault, so by even having the T reduces the chance that v is not bluffing? hence makes folding good here?
June 11, 2012
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turn is really bad. As played not sure if i am folding. lots of his FDs are now a pair which he might lead for value as we are never double barreling Ahigh there. Kind of weird combo as we are blocking straights with the T but also blocking potential bluffs with the .
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