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(2 votes) 
June 15, 2014
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Hi All,
This is my first post (I just joined). I am fairly new to poker and have only been playing in my states Pro League live games for a couple of months now. I rarely play online anymore as there are enough live games going on around me to keep a recreational player like me entertained (I play 3xMTT's/week).
Onto the question:
The last 2 live MTT's I played I encountered extremely loose aggressive players and struggle to play well against them.
There style was as follows:
- Aggression level set to max pre-flop.
- Raising or calling anything 4 times or more the big blind.
- Calling all-in's but not shoving themselves.
- Playing the same style out of position.
- Playing 75% of their hands dealt when out of position and playing 90% of their hands dealt when in position
What I did:
- I tightened up my game and only played premium hands.
- I raised 3 times the BB on a premium hand
- If re-raised I doubled it when I was strong (AA, KK, QQ, AKs)
- When out of position I never backed off my betting/raising by checking. If I did I was always raised.
- Where I could afford it, I paid to see them through to the river so as to get any information on tells, style, ranges played, etc. Everytime I did this I got beat by something weak that was drawn on the turn or river.
How do you play this type of player? I had this at 2 MTT's in a row this weekend and both times I got knocked out on bad beats.
Thanks in advance,
Jack
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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There are two ways to make money in poker:
1. Find situations where your opponents fold too much and steal a lot of pots in these situations.
2. Find situations where your opponents put a lot of money into the pot with weak hands and then get your money in with better hands in those situations.
You've done a good job of identifying a lot of the second sort of situations, so the question is how can you take maximium advantage of them. I don't think your adaptations are ideal. Let's go through them:
1.”Only play premiums” Although it's correct that a hand like 76s will go way down in value if you have a player behind you who never folds, other non-premium hands become stronger. AT isn't always a hand I'm excited about getting all-in, but against a maniac like you describe, it becomes a pretty good hand. So you shouldn't just open fold it, rather you should raise and then shove over a reraise from one of these players (assuming stacks aren't too deep). You shouldn't try to bluff, but you can widen your definition of what counts as a strong hand against these players. I'd be pretty reluctant to fold my BB to one of these players as well.
2. If they were calling any raise up to 4x the BB, then you might as well raise 4x the BB since you are only raising strong hands to begin with.
3. Again, if your opponents are never folding to raises, then raise bigger when you have strong hands.
4. If they are betting weak hands when you check to them, then check strong hands. Or bet the flop and then check the turn. Do whatever you think will entice them to put the most money into the pot with their weak hands. Again, lower your standards for what counts as a strong hand.
5. Don't do this. You already know how they are playing, you don't need to pay for information. Don't fold when you think you have the best hand, but don't call down when you think you are beat just to see their cards.
Unfortunately, there's nothing we can teach you here about avoiding bad beats 😉 It sounds like you got your money in good against them, though, which is a good sign.
Welcome to TPE!
May 25, 2014
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Pre-flop, you might try 5x or 6x then shove to any 3-bet instead of flatting or doubling.
Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about bad beats but you're doing the right thing getting it all in with premiums when you know you've got the best hand. I'm no pro here but I don't think there is anything terrible with check/shoving after the flop, instead of leading, if you *know* they will firing. You may lose out on some extra bets by shoving but if you're worried about them hanging around to catch a second pair or similar it's something to consider.
June 15, 2014
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Thanks for the feedback.
I played another live MTT last night and went quite well, until the innevitable happened and I got swapped to a table where the chip leader had never played before and was the loosest maniac newbie I have ever encountered.
This guy knew the basic rules of poker but was so drunk that he couldn't comprehend further instruction let alone shuffle and deal. He was playing out of turn in almost every hand, he would drop the cards when dealing, he didn't know when to post blinds, HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO CUT THE DECK!!??!!, etc. etc.
I tightened right up (as did everyone) and this guy went from raising with 10X the BB (and stealing the blinds) to shoving pre flop on everyone. He did this 5 times in a row and turned a terrible hand made up of rags that beat the heroes AK AQ AJ QQ KK JJ TT on the turn or river everytime.
He came round to me and did the exact same thing, missing my warm bed and feeling like I was gaining little from the game, other than the comedy, I shoved back with ATs. He had T6o and cooked me by floping a T and then turning a 6.
So where does these leave me? 3 games in a row where I have encountered maniacs with an abundance of luck…
I feel defeated by the game, I don't want to use the word “tilt” but my faith is definitely waivering at this point.
I definitely employed that tactics we talked about in your reply but it didn't seem to help when this guy had all the luck in the world on his side.
I think I will take a break from MTT's for a week and try organise a few home games until I get my head back around it.
Is it safe to assume that I am playing correclty but a large portion of Poker is luck; either you have it or you don't and in situations like the last 3 games I have played it can bust you very easily when favouring the maniac.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Time for some tough love:
You are going to lose most tournaments you enter.
Being better than your opponent does not entitle you to win.
Having the better hand when the money goes in does not entitle you to win.
All you can do is focus on making the most +EV decision at every opportunity and let the chips fall where they may. If you do this consistently, they will fall in your favor more often than not. But doing this consistently is not a trivial thing, and just when you think you have it figured out you will learn about lots of new things you could be doing better.
Yes, there is luck in poker. If you want a game of pure skill, go play chess. Good luck finding someone clueless who is willing to play you for real money, which is the situation you seem fortunate enough to find yourself in week after week at the poker table.
January 15, 2014
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Hey Jack. A couple of pointers for you from someone who also lives in Perth:
1. Dont play APL and expect not to get bad beats. The tourneys are designed to be over in a few hours, so luck plays a huge part due to the blind structure. If you want to play decent structure tourneys then play at Burswood or online.
2. Dont expect to play poker and not get bad beats. Your sample of 3 is very small. Dont get deflated by that. You just have to accept that it is part of the game, but we all love it and keep coming back for more for a reason…it's awesome!
3. Dont play APL if you dont want to play against drunk guys 🙂
Keep trying mate, i felt the same as you, which is why i play online.\
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