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(1 votes) 
September 12, 2015
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No Limit Holdem Tournament PokerStars
9 Players
$0.25+$0.25+$0.05
Blinds 80/160 9
UTG Firdus918 3,088
UTG+1 slastik197 9,253
MP1 men5450 9,924
MP2 alex.khok 2,676
MP3 Hero 3,782
CO Mattchieu 4,831
D tezas_7 8,934
SB Alekssss1987 7,067
BB trainer_mac 4,380
9 456 Hero is MP3 Q K
1 fold, slastik197 calls 160, 2 folds, Hero raises to 416, 4 folds, slastik197 calls 256
2 1,288 A 5 T
slastik197 checks, Hero bets 605, slastik197 calls 605
2 2,498 J
slastik197 checks, Hero bets 1,573, slastik197 calls 1,573
2 5,644 5
slastik197 bets 1,120, Hero goes all-in 1,164, slastik197 calls 44
slastik197 shows a flush, Ace high T Q
Hero shows a straight, Ten to Ace Q K
slastik197 wins 7,972 (net +4,190)
Hero lost 3,782
November 18, 2014
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Runner runner flush against your turn straight. I’d say this is just a bad beat…
Still watching Andrew’s series on cbeting so not to sure if that is a spot where we can safely check back as I think the cbet doesn’t really accomplish anything other than being called by better (I doubt a limp caller will fold a ten on that flop). Andrew to correct here but that’s the only thing I would change, basically just checking back the flop.
Once the turn comes, bet and probably just call the river once the flush completes. As played, just a bad beat.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Actually I would fold pre-flop, just because I don’t think this hand fares well against an EP raise, especially not in this position. That’s nothing to do with the outcome here, though.
Garfieldno, I think it would be helpful if you would include some of your own thoughts with your post. Rather than just saying, “I didn’t like the outcome, any way to avoid it?”, it would be good to suggest some of the options that you consider worth considering, as well as your own thoughts on what makes one option better than another.
August 13, 2015
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I think its just bad beat. You played your hand perfectly well. I like pot control strategy from “chaos”, but even in that case slastik197 would have called turn bet and he would have shoved on the river, so end result would have been the same.
Another way I can think of is “shoving on the turn” and make it look like a bluff. I think “slastik197″ will fold the turn shove unless he has an Ace in his hand. With this play you may not get maximum out of your opponent, but you also have better chance of staying in the tournament. Considering you only have 23 big blinds, shove “on the turn” is equally good way to go. With shove on the turn you also create aggressive image which you can use for future rounds.
March 9, 2015
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Foucault said
Actually I would fold pre-flop, just because I don’t think this hand fares well against an EP raise, especially not in this position. That’s nothing to do with the outcome here, though.Garfieldno, I think it would be helpful if you would include some of your own thoughts with your post. Rather than just saying, “I didn’t like the outcome, any way to avoid it?”, it would be good to suggest some of the options that you consider worth considering, as well as your own thoughts on what makes one option better than another.
I don’t see an EP raise? I just see a limp and then hero is first to raise.
August 20, 2015
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I think after his limp I am raising bigger than that. You’re giving him great odds to call and your hand is not particularly strong. With cutoff, button, small blind and big blind all yet to act plus what is that, about 4:1 odds for the limper to call and I’m thinking you should make it more like 490 at minimum.
Post flop I guess is fine though, I guess it’s just a bad beat and so hard to put him on a diamond here. Do you know anything about the player? Any stats, any reads, anything more for us to go with?
How many of you are folding on that river – can you ever afford to given how much is in there and you have only 1164 left?
August 13, 2015
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BadAstronaut said
I think after his limp I am raising bigger than that. You’re giving him great odds to call and your hand is not particularly strong. With cutoff, button, small blind and big blind all yet to act plus what is that, about 4:1 odds for the limper to call and I’m thinking you should make it more like 490 at minimum.Post flop I guess is fine though, I guess it’s just a bad beat and so hard to put him on a diamond here. Do you know anything about the player? Any stats, any reads, anything more for us to go with?
How many of you are folding on that river – can you ever afford to given how much is in there and you have only 1164 left?
I believe more than 90% ppl are not folding on the river. This is just part of the game.
August 20, 2015
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Agreed.
I’d be interested in knowing where that point is at which you can still fold a straight here – how much do you still need to have behind in this situation where you are OK to fold in this spot?
December 30, 2015
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Yeah cooler. I played nearly the exact hand in a live tourney but at least your V had a pair to continue. Mine just floated with nothing. In game I couldn’t give credit for the flush. In my case V c/r the river as we were deep and I just called leaving me about half my starting stack near the start of the tournament.
I don’t mind the c-bet reping the A when checked to with a gutter. I’d probably give up (or probably take a free card) if the J didn’t come since V looks like he could have a weak A or better. I like the turn bet as it a little larger but may still keep V’s weak aces and better in. Flush draws should fold. The fact that V called is a mistake and you got him to make it. GG.
I guess shoving the turn, considering how much V has behind and with a double flush draw is interesting. You loose value from someone chasing a flush and weak As but you probably still get a call from stronger hands (AJ, AT, sets). Some combo-draws may still call it off. WDYT?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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JoStylin said
Foucault said
Actually I would fold pre-flop, just because I don’t think this hand fares well against an EP raise, especially not in this position. That’s nothing to do with the outcome here, though.Garfieldno, I think it would be helpful if you would include some of your own thoughts with your post. Rather than just saying, “I didn’t like the outcome, any way to avoid it?”, it would be good to suggest some of the options that you consider worth considering, as well as your own thoughts on what makes one option better than another.
I don’t see an EP raise? I just see a limp and then hero is first to raise.
You’re right, I misread that hand. In that case, I agree with Astronaut about making a larger raise. I would also shove turn, just because I don’t think Hero can really have a bet-folding range getting such a good price on such a wet board. To be clear, the reason to shove turn is NOT to push Villain off of a hand like this one. You WANT him to call when he has this hand and is getting poor odds to beat you. However, I think he will call, whereas if you bet smaller you enable him to fold and save some money on the river when he misses.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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the_desi_gambler said
I think its just bad beat. You played your hand perfectly well. I like pot control strategy from “chaos”, but even in that case slastik197 would have called turn bet and he would have shoved on the river, so end result would have been the same.Another way I can think of is “shoving on the turn” and make it look like a bluff. I think “slastik197″ will fold the turn shove unless he has an Ace in his hand. With this play you may not get maximum out of your opponent, but you also have better chance of staying in the tournament. Considering you only have 23 big blinds, shove “on the turn” is equally good way to go. With shove on the turn you also create aggressive image which you can use for future rounds.
Not getting the maximum actually hurts your chances of staying in the tournament. It may increase your likelihood of surviving this hand, but ultimately accumulating chips is how you survive as blinds get bigger. You can’t afford to take this extremely risk-averse stance where you try to push your opponent off of any hand that could conceivably draw out on you. You just have to accept that you are going to have to take some risks in order to give yourself a chance of winning, and that you aren’t going to win most MTTs no matter what you do. Survival at all costs can’t be your approach, or, ironically, you’ll never survive.
August 13, 2015
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Foucault said
the_desi_gambler said
I think its just bad beat. You played your hand perfectly well. I like pot control strategy from “chaos”, but even in that case slastik197 would have called turn bet and he would have shoved on the river, so end result would have been the same.Another way I can think of is “shoving on the turn” and make it look like a bluff. I think “slastik197″ will fold the turn shove unless he has an Ace in his hand. With this play you may not get maximum out of your opponent, but you also have better chance of staying in the tournament. Considering you only have 23 big blinds, shove “on the turn” is equally good way to go. With shove on the turn you also create aggressive image which you can use for future rounds.
Not getting the maximum actually hurts your chances of staying in the tournament. It may increase your likelihood of surviving this hand, but ultimately accumulating chips is how you survive as blinds get bigger. You can’t afford to take this extremely risk-averse stance where you try to push your opponent off of any hand that could conceivably draw out on you. You just have to accept that you are going to have to take some risks in order to give yourself a chance of winning, and that you aren’t going to win most MTTs no matter what you do. Survival at all costs can’t be your approach, or, ironically, you’ll never survive.
I mostly agree with what you are saying. But I am not playing safe here. Personally I would have played this hand exactly the same way as “Garfieldno”. But I was going for alternate way to play this hand. Obviously my turn shove in the above case wont work, but generally speaking I see lot of Ax, heart and diamond draws calling my shove. Whereas only hands with showdown values (or better) will call me on the river.
I exclusively play live poker tournaments, so please read my alternate way in that context. The shove may not make sense in online MTT.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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I agree that shoving turn is best, just want to emphasize that it’s because worse hands will call, not because we want to push out draws. I was responding mostly to your “With this play you may not get maximum out of your opponent, but you also have better chance of staying in the tournament.” I don’t think live vs online makes any difference here.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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Oh and this is a very good and underappreciated point: “Whereas only hands with showdown values (or better) will call me on the river.” Made hands usually prefer to get money in before the river, draws benefit from playing the river (whether or not they hit).
August 13, 2015
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a
Foucault said
I agree that shoving turn is best, just want to emphasize that it’s because worse hands will call, not because we want to push out draws. I was responding mostly to your “With this play you may not get maximum out of your opponent, but you also have better chance of staying in the tournament.” I don’t think live vs online makes any difference here.
Agreed.
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