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This was a live hand
My thoughts was as played fine except I check river. I told him I didn't feel he had a value hand here, although he did have showdown value. BTW this is a 1 table live tournament and only the final 2 cashed.
June 25, 2010
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he should have shoved pre witha 4x open and 24bb effective stacks, not to mention he is out of position.
Funny… I told him the same thing. He said “too risky on bubble”. I said playing JJ oop is too risky on bubble too. After that back and forth about stk sizes and if he should have flatted yada I tried to go over hand “as played”. I stand by he without question should have checked river “as played”.
TPE Management
March 17, 2010
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I don't know…i think you can get value from worse pairs. You're only worried about QQ and 55 here tbh. A 4x raise could be 77-QQ, so i think he's ahead more than behind.
Also agree with shoving pre.
RonFezBuddy said:
I don't know…i think you can get value from worse pairs. You're only worried about QQ and 55 here tbh. A 4x raise could be 77-QQ, so i think he's ahead more than behind.
He very well might get value from TT-77, but I don't think at this point you want to be extracting value only because if you are wrong it cost you a very high % of your stk. If you check and he checks and your good great. If you check and he bets you can safely fold and if you check and he checks and you beat you just saved yourself 5K. I don't think live donks are bluffing this river so…
Either way I agree 100% 3 bet shoving pre is the correct play. How bad would this be if villan only showed up with K9s or similar and you let him see a flop because you where too scared to bubble by shoving what is most likely the best hand anyway. Plus you very well might get someone with A8s-AT to tool out to your shove.
June 25, 2010
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RonFezBuddy said:
I don't know…i think you can get value from worse pairs. You're only worried about QQ and 55 here tbh. A 4x raise could be 77-QQ, so i think he's ahead more than behind.
Also agree with shoving pre.
+1, actually as played I would bet river, the way he played it is never a king, so like RFB said QQ or 55. If he is calling with QQ, he is calling with TT-88 I would say almost everytime, and 77-66 often. I think this is a really good example of a thin value spot. There was a hand on PAD actually where durrr value towned jacks in a spot somewhat like this against Daniel Negraneu's 66 on a Q high board.
Durr on valuetowning: (go to 5:30 on the vid)
Edit: actually it's pretty different, but still durrr is so sick so watch it anyway)
I guess with these stk sizes the tuff spot we are in on this river is the exact reason why my friend should have been 3 bet shoving pre. Now of course we know he goes broke doing that because the villan is most likely not laying down QQ (although knowing the villan it's possible – he's the same guy I've seen raise fold 8bb's).
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