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Hand Discussion 79s SB flat call- DeepRun, Hot 11 Pokerstars
hayatekirino
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October 29, 2016 - 5:03 pm
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PokerStars – $10+$1|6000/12000 Ante 1500 NL – Holdem – 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 23.89 BB (VPIP: 35.96, PFR: 21.43, 3Bet Preflop: 13.04, Hands: 115)
MP: 13.82 BB (VPIP: 13.83, PFR: 11.49, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 94)
MP+1: 4.45 BB (VPIP: 20.59, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 34)
CO: 32.01 BB (VPIP: 23.08, PFR: 17.53, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 104)
BTN: 12.34 BB (VPIP: 15.33, PFR: 11.90, 3Bet Preflop: 4.44, Hands: 137)
Hero (SB): 15.83 BB
BB: 7.64 BB (VPIP: 10.34, PFR: 9.62, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 59)
UTG: 11.49 BB (VPIP: 6.67, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 15)

8 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.5 BB) Hero has 7diamond 9diamond

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN raises to 2 BB, Hero calls 1.5 BB, BB calls 1 BB

Flop: (7 BB, 3 players) 4heart 7club 9heart
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN checks

Turn: (7 BB, 3 players) Tspade
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets 10.22 BB and is all-in, Hero raises to 13.71 BB and is all-in, fold

 I would like to hear opinions about the way i play this hand 

Is this way acceptable to gain value or is just a fishy play;smile

BTN is a well known player which use raise every time from this position.

Foucault

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October 29, 2016 - 6:27 pm
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You should basically never be cold calling a raise with such shallow stacks, especially not OOP and especially not with such a weak hand. If you really think Villain is that wide, shove pre-flop. Otherwise, fold. Post-flop is fine/good.

hayatekirino
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October 30, 2016 - 7:31 am
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Thank Foucault. Can you or anyone else explain me the semi-bluff EV because as a result the villain has Q8o.  

Lets say is something like (%fold*Pot +%call *(equity *Final pot -bet) so we have

1)%fold i have on turn;

2)Pot at the time the allin happens

3)%call = 1-%fold;

4)Final pot after my call;

5)bet = his bet ;

I hope i am understood.smile

 

B) This hand is a hand that i should consider showdown value ; Or is better to finish it on flop; 

rbbeagles13
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November 1, 2016 - 5:56 pm
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Okay, I didn’t quite understand what you had said previously, but I’ll help walk you through and equity caluclation. What Andrew is saying is that with such a shallow stack from the SB, you should probably never be calling, unless it’s for exploitive reasons (with a strong hand against a post-flop maniac or whatever the case may be). So with that, we will be focusing on your preflop decision. We should be shoving or folding. Let’s determine the EV of shoving.

You list the Vs stats but it’s hard to determine from that exactly what his opening percentage from the button will be. Over 137 hands I think his PFR is a little lower than average. On average, I belive a lot of players are opening at least 65-70% of their buttons. Because he might be a little tighter, and because it’s deep and maybe he is slightly scared, let’s say he’s opening 40% from the button. Here is what a 40% range looks like:

44+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J7s+, T7s+, 97s+, 87s, A3o+, K7o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+.

Then we’ll say, when you shove, he calls off with a decent amount of the hands he raised, because he feels (rightly so) that he has equity in the pot due to the size of the pot and the odds he’ll be getting. We’ll be generous and say he’ll only call off 60% of the hands he raised, or a top 24% range, like:

66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A8o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo.

You can argue the exact hands if you want, like I think he’s not raise folding 44 and might be raise folding JTo, but that’s very player specific.

So, against a top 24% range, 79s has 36.22% equity. Our equation looks like this:

EV = (%fold * pot won) + ((%call and you win * pot won) + (%call and you lose * amount lost))

So, we’re saying he will fold 40% of the time. That 40% you will win 4.54 BBs. 60% of the time he will call, and of that 60% you will win on average 36.22% of the time. Or, you will get called and win 21.732% of the time, total (0.6 times 0.3622) and you will get called and lose 38.268% of the time, total (0.6 times 0.6378, his equity in the pot). When you get called and win you will win 26.72 BBs (his stack plus the antes and the BB) and when you get called and lose you will lose 11.84 BBs (his 12.34 BBs minus your 0.5 BBs already in from the SB). Our equation is now:

EV = (0.40 * 4.54BBs) + ((0.21732 * 26.72 BBs) + (0.38268 * -11.84BBs)
EV = (+1.816 BBs) + (+5.8068 BBs) + (-4.5309 BBs)
EV = + 3.0919 BBs

So this tells us that if our assumptions are correct, then shoving over the top of V is a positive (or GOOD) play by earning us an average of a little over 3 BBs every time. The key here is, your assumptions make a big difference. If you change the ranges for V even slightly I’ll bet your EV will vary greatly. Play around with the numbers and seee for yourself.

This is an exercise you should be doing FIRST, before you post any hands on the forum, when it comes to all in situations, and calling of all ins. If you ever find yourself calling an all in and not sure if it was the right play, do this calculation afterward with your perceived range for V and see what the math says. A lot of poker decisions are math problems. If you want awesome tools to help you with this, download Equilab. A quick google search will lead you to the Equilab link from PokerStrategy. It’s a great equity tool that will aide you in not just doing equity calculations but seeing what the top 10, 20, 30, 40% etc of ranges look like.

FWIW, I believe our numbers here are wrong. I believe V will open more than 40% OTB, and I believe he will call with almost 90% of the hands he opens with. Once you try those new numbers in there, I am sure this will become a solid MINUS EV play. I can’t find a lot of reasons for V to raise fold 12 BBs OTB, and a lot of your EV in this equation comes from getting V to fold the bottom of his range. I continued with the calculation, however, to try and show you how an equity calculation is done.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on what I did here. Hope I helped!

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