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Gross spot with overpair in 8$r on stars
Alextoon1
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August 9, 2011 - 8:55 am
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Poker Stars No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150.00/t300.00 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

milano6 (UTG+1): t5365.00 17.88 BBs
wildwrite (UTG+2): t14228.00 47.43 BBs
weezy neil (MP1): t9942.00 33.14 BBs
asperaldo77 (MP2): t19346.00 64.49 BBs
niwreknarf (CO): t21112.00 70.37 BBs
Jakowski (BTN): t19008.00 63.36 BBs
Hero (SB): t19618.00 65.39 BBs
CMoosepower (BB): t21489.00 71.63 BBs
hhdr (UTG): t17722.00 59.07 BBs

Pre Flop: (t450) Hero is SB with T of hearts T of clubs
5 folds, niwreknarf raises to t700, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1995, 1 fold, niwreknarf calls t1295

Flop: (t4290) 4 of hearts 3 of spades 7 of hearts (2 players)
Hero bets t2100.00, niwreknarf raises to t5100,

New at the table, only 7th hand there.
All players are fishes.
No reads no stats.

fold/ jam?
I donk like flatting there ever. 

hawkeyeK9
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August 9, 2011 - 8:59 am
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Get it in sir! He might be raising with heart draws, smaller pairs, or maybe even A7 sometimes. Get it in and if he has a set say GG.

Alextoon1
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August 9, 2011 - 9:22 am
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Well, 

If he has like Overs with hearts I'm still not in good shape… 
Dont really see a lot of hands I'm beating accept 88/99 – It's the first hand out of 7 I do anything… dont see him spazzing there too much, also dont see him flatting A7 there.. 

hawkeyeK9
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August 9, 2011 - 10:38 am
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Alextoon1 said:

Well, 

If he has like Overs with hearts I'm still not in good shape… 
Dont really see a lot of hands I'm beating accept 88/99 – It's the first hand out of 7 I do anything… dont see him spazzing there too much, also dont see him flatting A7 there.. 

There is a chance you are not in great shape but your hand is too strong to fold. If you had reads maybe, but without reads you got to get it in here. You are still dominating a lot of hands that make this play and bluffs of course.

terbet11
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August 9, 2011 - 3:46 pm
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This is one of those spots you are either way ahead or way behind.  What about 4 betting pre?  You are deep enough to do this and you can then evaluate at that time depending on how the villain reacts. I think that bvb the villain is raising with a pretty wide range pre.  By flatting pre you gain no information and in most times (except this time) an overcard is coming on the flop and you are oop.  I also think c/c on the flop would not be a bad idea as well to control the size of the pot.  When leading and getting raised he could really have about anything especially with the dry texture and he could be putting you to the test.  With the way played, I still think you are deep enough to flat the raise and reevaluate turn.  If the villain double barrels you can start minimizing his range even more and make a decision at that point.  Best of luck at the tables.

Cougars4444
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August 9, 2011 - 8:52 pm
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I really feel like we are way ahead or way behind here as well.  Out of curiosity what were you doing if he 4b you pre?  I ask because if I'm planning to fold to a 4b I'll flat pre and our hand is really underrepped and we can control the pot a lot better.  Kinda feel like we are playing a guessing game at this point against his range cause he could easily flat and bluff at this flop a lot to put you in a tough spot with a medium strength pair like you have.

FkCoolers
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August 9, 2011 - 9:57 pm
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This deep, readless, and OOP I just flat pre and look to play a small pot unless I hit a set. 

By 3 betting we typically fold out the weak stuff he opens with and we don't play well OOP on multiple streets vs. his calling range. 

It seems like you just 3 bet because you had TT but didn't have a plan for the rest of the hand. 

Alextoon1
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August 10, 2011 - 4:25 am
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terbet11 said:

This is one of those spots you are either way ahead or way behind.  What about 4 betting pre?  You are deep enough to do this and you can then evaluate at that time depending on how the villain reacts. I think that bvb the villain is raising with a pretty wide range pre.  By flatting pre you gain no information and in most times (except this time) an overcard is coming on the flop and you are oop.  I also think c/c on the flop would not be a bad idea as well to control the size of the pot.  When leading and getting raised he could really have about anything especially with the dry texture and he could be putting you to the test.  With the way played, I still think you are deep enough to flat the raise and reevaluate turn.  If the villain double barrels you can start minimizing his range even more and make a decision at that point.  Best of luck at the tables.

4betting?

I 3betted it pre.. I think you misread the hand completely sir..

Alextoon1
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August 10, 2011 - 4:32 am
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Cougars4444 said:

I really feel like we are way ahead or way behind here as well.  Out of curiosity what were you doing if he 4b you pre?  I ask because if I'm planning to fold to a 4b I'll flat pre and our hand is really underrepped and we can control the pot a lot better.  Kinda feel like we are playing a guessing game at this point against his range cause he could easily flat and bluff at this flop a lot to put you in a tough spot with a medium strength pair like you have.

FkCoolers said:

This deep, readless, and OOP I just flat pre and look to play a small pot unless I hit a set. 

By 3 betting we typically fold out the weak stuff he opens with and we don't play well OOP on multiple streets vs. his calling range. 

It seems like you just 3 bet because you had TT but didn't have a plan for the rest of the hand. 

I really dont like flatting this preflop cause BB will probaly also go into the pot and playing this OOP against 2 people isnt optimal imo.
Cougars regarding your question if he 4bet I snap fold – people will rarely 4bet without a hand especially since I didnt play a hand till now..

Ya I agree he might bluff, however I didnt feel in real time that he would do that.. He might flat me pre with JJ/QQ there – fishes often do cause they panic when someone 3bet them.
Anyway as you guys guessed I folded the hand just cause the table was so weak and I had ton of chips remaining.
I really didnt wanna go broke with my stack against this guy – seems pointless to do so if I take my edge of the field and table in particular.

Thanks a lot on the comments everyone.

Cougars4444
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August 10, 2011 - 3:38 pm
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I don't mind your play and I agree if the field/table are really soft we dont have to push our small edges as much.  I'm not saying he is doing this here but it would be a good spot for him to flat your 3b and he can raise/fold almost his entire flatting range against your c-bet on this flop.  Just because of that I will normally flat here based on our limited information and somewhat awkward stacksizes for playing this pot oop.

rivermen123
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August 12, 2011 - 3:54 am
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Flat pre and keep the pot small so you don't end up in a huge pot oop playing guessing games…imo.

I wouldn't be too comfortable stacking off for 65bb with TT here.  I think the key is not bloating the pot pre.  Maybe play it a little bit more cautiously from the blinds (possibly check/calling the flop) so you don't get put to this decision.

You can't rule out an overpair here…good and bad players will both flat a 3bet in position with a big pair sometimes, for different reasons.

Flop:  check/call >>>>>>> bet/3bet >> bet/fold>>>>>check/fold>>>>>>>>>>bet/call

 

(Check/raise?)

Alextoon1
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August 13, 2011 - 4:41 pm
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rivermen123 said:

 

Flop:  check/call >>>>>>> bet/3bet >> bet/fold>>>>>check/fold>>>>>>>>>>bet/call

 

(Check/raise?)

didnt understand this part sir…
check raise where?

rivermen123
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August 13, 2011 - 4:52 pm
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Alextoon1 said:

rivermen123 said:

 

Flop:  check/call >>>>>>> bet/3bet >> bet/fold>>>>>check/fold>>>>>>>>>>bet/call

 

(Check/raise?)

didnt understand this part sir…
check raise where?

Oh I don't know…I was just wondering where it might fall on the continuum of possibilities…  smile

Alextoon1
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August 13, 2011 - 4:55 pm
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hehe cool smile

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