April 14, 2016
I am posting this here as I am not sure when it will be seen on the video comments as it’s been out for a little while now. It is a great series for me. One thing that is giving me a headache though is the reshove maths on the second video. I can not get it the same as on the video and the long hand is not shown. I think it is important for me to have this correct if I am to analyse my game correctly.
It is a semi bluff re shove on the turn, if called you will 16% equity.
Here is what I posted.
“Hi Andrew, Great series so far. I love the comments on over used poker terms as I have fallen into this trap myself. A going back to basics series is just what I need. Lets get that back end of the inch worm walking as it is super stretched for me at the moment.
Regarding Equinsu’s comment I am too confused at how you arrive at the 928.
This could be something I have not grasped yet but I will write it out long hand, please someone correct me if I have this wrong.
Pot at turn = 11648
Our shove = 10317
Pot after shove = 21965
Pot when he calls = 32282
When shoving we have 3 possible outcomes, He folds, he calls we win, he calls we loose.
For each.
50% of the time he folds and we win what he has contributed cEVf = 0.5 x 11648 = 5824
50% of the time he calls of which 16% we win (his bet and call) = .16 (11648+10317) = 3514.4 i.e. we win what he has contributed not what we have
84% we loose our bet = .84 x 10317 = -8666.28
sum total chips on average gained when called = 0.5 x (3514.4-8666.28)= 0.5 x -5152.28 = -2576
Sum total chips gained when shoving = 5824 – 2576 = 3248
or to express another way as I am more used to with EV calcs
%fold x pot + %call we win – %call we loose
.5 x 11648 + 0.08 x 21965 – .42 x 10317
= 5824 + 1757.2 – 4333.14 = 3248.06
So if I have it correct this it is definitely plus EV to shove if we ignore implied odds of checking. note .42+.08+.5 =1 to clarify these come from he cls we win .5*.16 and he cls we loose.5*.84.
Ev check with no additional betting.
= .16 x 11648 = 1863.68
So when we make a comparison between shoving and checking with the assumptions made it is 3248 – 1863.68 = 1384.32 cEV to shove over calling.
Sorry if I have this wrong and have confused things.
Andrew keep rambling (not that i think it is rambling just talking) as this gives good in site on how to think in situations. I really do not understand Golden Beets comment.
Videos where people just say shoving this spot is not helpful. breaking down why like you do, ie what range they think villan has, what fold equity thy think they have and why or even just saying i think I have high fold equity here and not much show down equ so I am shving is way more helpful.
Even better stating how they would modify this given different cards or different opponents. This not rambling this is golden nuggets of information.”
A long post I know and I hope I have the maths correct as this is how I look at my game currently.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
Sorry about that. 3248 is indeed the correct EV for shoving. This was actually just an arithmetic error on my part. If you look at the equation as I have it written out at 17:24, everything through Line 3 is correct. However, the second number on Line 4 should not be 4896 but rather 2576, as you find. Thanks for catching that, and sorry for the confusion.
April 14, 2016
Thanks for the reply, the series is really helping me to try and think in equity and what to do with marginal hands. I am glad of the mistake as it forced me to really understand the maths as I went over and over it. I will feel more confident now when analysing my own game.
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