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PokerStars – $200+$15|40/80 NL – Holdem – 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: …..racker.com
CO: 13,090.00
BTN: 9,273.00
SB: 15,820.00
BB: 13,239.00
UTG: 10,379.00
UTG+1: 7,317.00
Hero (MP): 9,910.00
MP+1: 20,651.00
LP: 10,475.00
SB posts SB 40.00, BB posts BB 80.00
Pre Flop: (120.00) Hero has Kc Ah
UTG raises to 200.00, fold, Hero calls 200.00, MP+1 calls 200.00, fold, CO calls 200.00, BTN calls 200.00, fold, BB raises to 1,120.00, fold, Hero raises to ?????
sizing please? and thoughts on line in general?
Also this is in the 21 scoop M, which is the equiv of sunday mill so play is relatively loose. cant bring up everyones stats at the moment as i need my HUD, but 3better was running at 75/56 over a small sample
Love the line. 4b to 2,520. If villain jams I probably puke fold though.
Why wouldnt you flat and play position and outplay for value post?
Meh, flatting invites the other 3 callers to come in and you wont even have position if BU calls. You def have to 4b to try and get HU IMO. I’m still torn between 4b/call and 4b/fold honestly.
Yeah, I see what your saying but I think villians squeeze sizing here will pretty much isolate the hand for you and you can expect others to fold. Think you will get more value post by flatting rather than 4betting, that will just cause villian to 5bet too often if he is squeezing that big. 4bet/folding is turning your hand into a bluff and you will be losing value. 4bet/calling is not good imo.
We have to have a plan here when we decide to flat the UTG raise. I believe we flat with the hope that someone squeezes behind and then we can 4b. This only makes sense, especially since the SB could easily be stealing here. I just feel like flatting the 3b and then playing IP is kinda blah. We will miss the flop a majority of the time and then what are we doing? Calling/floating the flop? Interesting hand, I like it.
If we are going to flat then we shouldnt have flatted original raise to induce, we crush 3betters range so im never 4bet/folding.
You crushing his range is exactly why you should flat, so you can get multiple streets of value. Flatting UTG open with AK here preante is standard and then this all played out. If you are trying to induce by calling here you are assuming that almost always someone is 3betting behind you or squeezing with two EP players already in the pot, seems like a silly assumption.
I flatted expecting a squeeze a high enough % to make it +EV, if i think people flat with worse and arent squeezy then i 3bet.
Flatting the original raise is standard, and 3 betting doesnt accomplish a whole lot. Our value with ak early in tournaments comes from keeping weaker aces and kings in the pot preflop and having them dominated when we both flop a pair. We don’t mind playing a multiway pot with ak this deep. Second, What do you think his range is when he squeezes? Its probably bigger pairs like 10s+ and maybe like aj+ although he shouldnt be squeezing with aj/aq there. he really shouldnt be doing it with 1010 or jj either because he will have to fold to a 4 bet and they dont play that great deepstacked and oop. he could also just have air in which he will never flat a 4 bet from you. so you will be guessing when/if he 5bets because he will have you crushed, you might flipping against qq, or you will have the same hand. Its not like he will 3 bet/5bet aq in this spot. Flatting lets us play the 3-better in position. The other two callers arent guarenteed to come along, but if they do its not the end of the world. We will have invested 1/9 of our stack, but still have over 100bb behind which is plenty to continue with if he whiff the flop and have to fold.
If we 4 bet we’d fold to a 5.
Flat seems better, as long as we accept that we’re giving up our hand post flop a lot of the time.
ill repeat, squeezer is a spazz, his range is super wide, flatting and playing multiway is bad when we crush his range, everyone else is capped,
im always 4 betting here, you say you flatted pre to induce a squeeze, got the perfect spot vs someone you say is spazzy and now u dont know if what you should do….WHAT!!!!!! if this is true we need to take more time and evaluate our oppenents and plan things better pre flop….as is i think we are always 4 betting here, and if you know he is spazzy you can def get it in ( spazz will level into jamming and raising worse A type hands the the I know he knows game)
if he is an unknown and you wanted to induce a squeeze i think a 4 bet fold is def a viable option this deep this early it is just sick to stack off the million…the only certain at this point in this hand is that we are 100% always 4 betting this spot, or else we shouldnt be flatting the first raise pre planning on inducing a squeeze
i posted this hand because i was unsure about bet sizing, the options i considered were 4bet shoving, 4bet small/call 4bet larger/jam or induce any flop.
I think shoving is best as he heros us alot more than he 5bet jams on us, prob has a range of around 44+ J10s+ Ax+ and doesnt 5bet most of it, but might hero alot of it?
meh i think shoving is never getting herod here, it is such a huge overshove for this stage in the tournament,
we need to give him a chance to spazz or flat a 4 bet for 1/3 of our stack oop and embarass himself post flop
like i said i think sizing should be somwhere between 3125 and 3750 prob would lean inbetween though….with this size 4 bet if he jus flats oop it leaves us a perfect stack to pile pot on the flop when all of his hands brick….
but fish hate 3bet/folding so bad, they spite call super wide. possibly up to their entire 3betting range
This has been a really helpful thread, thanks for everyones input. I elected to jam just because i knew he was spewy preflop but had no idea about his post flop tendencies, everyone else folded and 3better snapped me with 55. no idea if he is 5bet shipping it or just calling and calling off on any flop.
I feel that our hand has so much more equity against range voer 5 streets so if we 4bet and get flatted we should pretty much always get it in
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