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Full Tilt $12,500 KO Guarantee - 3bet, then 3 barrel whiffed semi bluff
sammyboy
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April 8, 2011 - 11:20 pm
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Full Tilt Poker $12,500 KO Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t170/t340 Blinds + t25 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

spb_txt (CO): BB = 26.6, t9037
foxy232323 (BTN): BB = 40.5, t13780
laurentt1977 (SB): BB = 48.8, t16604
ghanges (BB): BB = 53.0, t18009
nook 1 nook (UTG): BB = 63.7, t21649
BARE1S (UTG+1): BB = 14.8, t5020
lalalend321 (UTG+2): BB = 45.8, t15586
1millionbankrol (MP1): BB = 29.6, t10072
seelown (MP2): BB = 62.9, t21380

Pre Flop: (t735) ghanges is BB with K of spades T of hearts
4 folds, seelown raises to t700, 3 folds, ghanges raises to t1955, seelown calls t1255

Flop: (t4305) 7 of hearts 8 of hearts 5 of hearts (2 players)
ghanges bets t1955, seelown calls t1955

Turn: (t8215) 3 of diamonds (2 players)
ghanges bets t4055, seelown calls t4055

River: (t16325) Q of spades (2 players)
ghanges bets t10019 all in……

 

Villain is 16/13 and has folded to 3bet 4/4 times which is why I decided to 3bet hoping to take it down pre flop. 

Decided to 3 barrel as I read his calls for a flush draw or mediocre hand, that was perhaps a bluff cather but didnt think he'd commit rest of his stack to it on river.  I'd raised and 2 barrelled 2 hands a go and shown down the winner so thought I'd get some credit…  Hand before that, 2 barreled and took it on turn.  Was hoping to take it down on flop or turn, but when draws missed thought I could snatch it on river.

Getting frisky for no good reason?

 

bennymacca
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April 8, 2011 - 11:48 pm
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in general this looks a bit like spew to me – even if villain has folded 4/4 times, that doesn't mean squat really. in fact it means that it will be more likely as time goes on that villain opens a lot stronger. 

 

if i was going to bet that flop after 3betting, i would bet a lot more – something like 2800-3200 would be better. my reasoning for that is your flop bet screams weakness imo, you want to make it look like you have 2 black aces or something and so i would be putting in a much bigger bet on the flop. 

 

then, if you wanted to continue, you could shove turn. this makes your line look like QQ+ imo. 

 

as played, you have given villain value to draw out on you, and if they had 99 or TT then they are probably still calling, as all draws missed, and i think only AQ with a heart is going to play the way you have and be in front of TT say. 

 

so i dont necessarily mind the triple barrel (you have to get your spewyness on sometimes right? :D) but i would play it faster. 

jshilling09
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April 9, 2011 - 12:48 am
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This is a pretty bad hand to 3-bet oop with 50bb stacks IMO.  you have a lot of reverse implied odds on Ks and Ts, and your sizing is too small to make him fold most of his range at 50+bb stack sizes.  I wouldn't say 4/4 fold to 3-bets means he is more likely to fold to this, as he has position and has been getting raped by 3-bets for the past half hour so he is probably fustrated and wants to call IP.  

The only hands that are “missed draws” are Ahx hands, most of which he folds pre because they play the worst against 3-bets.  AhQx gets there, AK will be 4betting a decent % of the time, especially when he is fustrated, so AJ w/ the Ah, which dowsn't have a lot of added equity so he may be folding the turn sometimes.  

I would say the missed draws he has do not make up enough of his range to make this 3-barrel profitable, and I think it is hard to 3-bet KTo 50bb deep profitably oop against a decent player.  If you are 30bbs deep with antes i like it more, because it takes away a lot of his implied odds and he will fold more.

Wein
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April 9, 2011 - 1:11 am
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Not really a big fan of your 3-bet OOP being so small.  Esp both of you being pretty deep and you giving him about 3:1 on a call here to play in position against you.

 

As for how you played this hand, I do like your sizing on all streets.  Is this a spot I would 3-barrel?  Probably not, because the texture has not changed much since the flop to really get this guy to hero anything.   But I think something should be said for your sizing setting up a river shove and putting the guy to a test.  I think you can get away with a smaller turn bet to maximize your potential for a fold on a river shove, whereas if you get jammed on it minimizes the amount of chips you give up in the hand when 2-barreling.

HITTHEPANDA
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April 9, 2011 - 8:05 pm
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might make it a bit mre pre oop like 3x, i think  i would usually give up on turn it's spew to barrel since no one is going to fold on that blank usually.

sammyboy
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April 10, 2011 - 5:59 pm
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Cheers guys really appreciate the valuable feedback, fairly new to large field MTTs (45s have been my thing over last couple of years) and from watching the vids on the site Ive been trying to learn how to get outta line wink.

 

I guess OOP this 3bet size was way too small, would you say if I was on the button that this sizing is good? 

And OOP I guess KTo is not worth it either? Unless the pf raiser was much looser, in which case better chance of fold…?

 

HTP – Always go for 3x OOP even with monsters?

Wein – I had thought when I shoved that I wanted my river bet to be higher % of pot, so turn bet smaller would achieve that defo.

jshilling & benny – you both think that a 4/4 fold doesnt give enough reason to try a play ( I realise that KTo is defo a play), but my thinking was that a 16/13 player would try and steal from HJ fairly light, and his history told me he had folded to 3bets (although these are PT stats and not direct situation reads – ie he might have folded to a lot of action not just one 3bet) – not enough reason to try it on?

 

Thanks again – already feel like I've learned a load from da Nation!

 

sammyboy
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April 10, 2011 - 6:01 pm
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Oh and FWIW he tanked longtime and called with 6h6x cry

bennymacca
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April 10, 2011 - 8:42 pm
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sammyboy said:

 

jshilling & benny – you both think that a 4/4 fold doesnt give enough reason to try a play ( I realise that KTo is defo a play), but my thinking was that a 16/13 player would try and steal from HJ fairly light, and his history told me he had folded to 3bets (although these are PT stats and not direct situation reads – ie he might have folded to a lot of action not just one 3bet) – not enough reason to try it on?

 

the reason i am saying that this is that most people, when getting picked on – folded 4/4 times to a 3bet – will then start to tighten up their range a bit, if they are a thinking player. if they are a fish, they will try to “take a stand” with whatever they opened with, and a lot of that still beats you. (ace rag, mid pp etc) 

 

secondly, how many hands was this over? i am guessing less than 100. if you had 1k hands and a 60% fold to 3bet then i would think this is a much better spot. but limited stats can often be misleading. 

 

 

 

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