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This hand happened at the Venetian deep stack 1.6k event. We are 5 handed and I am the short stack with 25bbs. The CL is the donk at the table, about 50s old guy from England.
CL opens UTG to 2.8bb and I call with AhJh after him. Rest of the table folds.
My image is pretty good and I have been using it against him a lot with lots of raises to take him out of pots and so far he has a lot respect for my game folding and showing top pairs when I raise him on A high flops. I did this about 4 times against him because I had a read about this betting patern.
Flop comes AsQs7d. He checks and I check behind.
Turn comes a Qh. He checks and I bet 1/2 pot and he check raises me 4x my bet and I call.
River comes 3d and he jams.
What do you do and what are you putting him on?
He is the only donkey at the table left and the other players are all online pros. The payout at the venetian is pretty top heavy. 5th got 22k and 1st was over 100k.
sorry wrong forum… Can a mod move it to the right section?
October 6, 2010
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TPE Management
April 6, 2010
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had he been c-betting a high % of the time? Seems like an obvious place to c-bet for him, which makes me wonder if he flopped a monster. I can see him checking something like KQ which of course makes this a terrible turn card. Obviously he has been fishy, but do you think he 4x raises the turn if he does not have a Q?
He was c-betting A high flops whenever he had top pair… No matter if had a good or bad kicker. He was an old guy playing pretty straight forward. I got kind of confused by both of his checks and then check raise.
25bb sounds like a nice reshoving stack.
As you chose to play it more conservatively I would bet the flop for value and check back or maybe fold the turn if “pops” suddenly c/c the flop and lead out on the turn.
As played I'd fold against what you perceived as a straight forward player (of age) (with all respect to pops).
You say he cbets when he hits and now he checked it, meaning he was scared of you holding an ace and checkraises “turned” trips.
You say he was a donk, what does that mean in this case? Was he raising a lot of hands and playing loose or was he just tight player and folded easily? Had he been opening in EP a lot? If he had not been raising EP much then his range is can be narrowed down to premiums here. I know he could have a lot of hands but from what I know in the hand and the history between you two, I think he has AA or KQ here. I am leaning toward him slow playing AA.
July 3, 2010
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I think betting the turn is pretty bad for a couple reasons:
1. He could have a queen and we're valuetowning ourselves
2. He could have the worst hand and we're betting him out of the pot
If he's been folding top pairs and such, why did you even call the turn? This is a way ahead/way behind spot and the dynamic at the table has given you absolutely no indication that you'd ever be ahead.
From what I read it sounds like over half your stack is in the middle on the river and you're considering folding to a river card that changes nothing about this hand.
The biggest mistake here was everything about the Turn.
hawkeyeK9 said:
You say he was a donk, what does that mean in this case? Was he raising a lot of hands and playing loose or was he just tight player and folded easily? Had he been opening in EP a lot? If he had not been raising EP much then his range is can be narrowed down to premiums here. I know he could have a lot of hands but from what I know in the hand and the history between you two, I think he has AA or KQ here. I am leaning toward him slow playing AA.
FkCoolers said:
I think betting the turn is pretty bad for a couple reasons:
1. He could have a queen and we're valuetowning ourselves
2. He could have the worst hand and we're betting him out of the pot
If he's been folding top pairs and such, why did you even call the turn? This is a way ahead/way behind spot and the dynamic at the table has given you absolutely no indication that you'd ever be ahead.
From what I read it sounds like over half your stack is in the middle on the river and you're considering folding to a river card that changes nothing about this hand.
The biggest mistake here was everything about the Turn.
I agree this is a way ahead/way behind spot… I called the turn with the intention of calling any river that didnt complete straights or flushes specially given the odds as you mentioned because most of my stack was already in the middle by the river.
Fisherman said:
He was openning any Ace at any position and had some really bad betting tells… like small bet (2.2 or 2.3bb) with weak hands such as A6off and strong bets (over 3.5bb) with big hands such as AK. I think his range must be wide here because he was the chip leader and we are 5 handed. In this hand I could not get any betting pattern tells preflop to narrow his range.
Gotcha. I guess that changes things a bit. Given the way the hand went though, I am sticking with my read.
So anyway the villain had 77 and flop a set and turned a boat.
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TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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as the short stack and 5 handed i like to be more aggressive preflop, you only have 25bb and a 3 bet pre requires a cbet post if villain flats your 3 bet you are now forced to cbet a whiffed flop because i beleive applying the utmost pressure at this stage of a tourney is imperative, so now you 3 bet and cbet and now sit with under 10 bigs and now your almost committed so this is a ugly spot, what i would do here (and this is one of those small differences between live and online) is prolly 3 bet fold and leave yourself with 17-18 bigs but online it would prolly be a 3 bet shove, with the structures in these events i bring my online game to the table but just dumbed down 5/6 bigs so all my 20 big blind thinking online is around 15 bigs live. And honestly 3 bet shoveing pre isnt awful either just wouldnt do it to a tight player and if you havnt 3 bet shoved at this point it looks mass strong and alot of the times live folk will muck 77.
As you stated when he rasies less than 3x he usually has weak holdings, so im def 3 bet getting it in here. and as the shortstack you need to accumulate chips and this seems like a good spot against a so called donk.
As you played it im def betting the flop, if you take it down right there sweet. if he then calls you can always check behind the turn for pot control.
But as soon as you get check rasied on the turn i think you have to fold as the tell you gave us this def means strenght!
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