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Free play from BB. floped OESD on dry flop MW 13 bbs stack
nospa
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April 4, 2018 - 10:50 am
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Hello,

Here in those spots I feel unsure on how to play them with medium strength hands like weak TP or draws like OESD and FD here it is also MW. I don’t know how to approach them. My thinking is that we got an OESD we got 13 BBs so I am never folding the question is lead/shove or x/shove. 

What you think ? 

UTG: 28,598 (48 bb) 58/7/67  hands
MP: 12,499 (21 bb)
CO: 8,258 (14 bb)
BU: 5,931 (10 bb) 30/9 53 hands
SB: 3,914 (7 bb)
BB (Hero): 7,730 (13 bb)

Pre-Flop: (1,800) Hero is BB with 9 6
UTG calls 600, 1 fold, CO calls 600, 1 fold, SB calls 300, Hero checks

Flop: (3,300) K 7 8 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets 6,980 (all-in), UTG calls 6,980, 2 players fold

theginger45

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April 4, 2018 - 12:47 pm
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I think there are two major questions to ask here:

1. Would your opponents expect you to play Kx+ this way here? If not, you might get looked up somewhat light.

2. Are your opponents likely to bet-fold with a reasonably high frequency if you check? If so, check-jamming will have a pretty high EV – if they’re never bet-folding, then check-jamming is kind of a punt.

nospa
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April 5, 2018 - 7:45 am
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Hi,

1. On these type of dry boards I am probably check/decide depending on the action / bet sizes if I want to go broke with my weak Kx. (is that correct or I am kind committed with 13 bbs with TP anyway?

2. Yes, x/jam is probably good.  However in game I was worried that due to my low short stack I don’t have enough FE. however as I see it now vs a bet of lets say 1.5K if I shove my stack I think I might get some fold vs weak pairs. So yes I should ask those Qs and take it from there !

Foucault

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April 5, 2018 - 10:39 am
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I wouldn’t rule out bet flop/shove turn as an option also. Like Ginger said, it’s good to think about how you’d play a strong hand if you had one (and yes, any K is a strong hand you should be looking to go broke with here).

DuckinDaDeck
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April 5, 2018 - 11:18 am
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This is a situation where EV calculations can help us a lot. For semi-bluff shoves:

EV = (Fold% * Pot) + {Call% * [Win% * (Pot + Bet) – (Lose% * Bet)]}

To find the Breakeven point of a play we can solve for EV of 0

For open jamming flop I’ll assume that you’re never called by more than 1 player and that our OESD has 30% equity when called

0 = (Fold% * 3300) + {Call% * [30% * (3300 + 6980) – (70% * 6980)]}

0 = (F * 3300) + [(1-F) * (3084 – 4886)]

– 3300F =  1802F – 1802

F =  0.353

So to break even on our shove we need all three players to fold at least 35.3% of the time. Probably a little too ambitious, if each player calls at least 13% of their range we are making a losing play.

For check-raise jamming I’ll use a villain bet of 40% pot, assume that all other players fold and we still have 30% equity. This can be a little confusing because when called our EV remains the same, but we win more when villain folds.

0 = [F * (3300 + 1320)] + [(1-F) * (3084 – 4886)]

-4620F = 1802F – 1802

F = 0.281

Now we only need villain to fold 28.1% of the time for our play to break even. It’s still pretty ambitious as a lot of players will not fold this often after betting into 4 players but I think this play is justifiable considering we only have 12bb if we fold. I like this play unless you are near the bubble/close enough to the final table that ICM becomes a factor.

Check/folding feels like we are giving up a lot of equity but is also fine, and in some situations (especially against some villains) I think it is by far the best play. Check/calling can be okay against a very small bet (or if someone else has already called) but we’re going to be forced to fold a lot of turns with even less chips in our stack.

Having a ~33% draw (OESD + backdoor FD), a ~35% draw (naked FD or OESD + 1 overcard) or a 40%+ draw (FD + 1 over or OESD + 2 overs) is much better for the check-raise shove line.

EDIT: I also think Andrew’s suggestion to consider bet flop/shove turn (if called by 1 player) is strong. We can get peeled once by a lot of 8x that may or may not call our turn shove, and might even fold out a hand like T9s on the turn.

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