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Foxwoods $1200
BULAW
Guppy
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August 25, 2012 - 8:06 pm
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Blinds 12,000/6k ante give or take 1k

Hero(UTG) 29BB

Villian SB    38BB

 

Overall villian has been rather tight/competitent player only real showdown hand I saw was when he called down a very lose player with mid pair top kicker making the correct play. My image is rather respectable only showing to showdown 1010 floping top set and jamiing on a 3bet getting him to fold.<—– over 7 rotations.

 

Hero(UTG) AKcc Bump it to 38,000 folds around to villian in SB who flats. I have not seen the villian flat like this in such bad position in the entirity of playing with him.

 

Flop Q37r   Villian checks. Weird…. I decided not to Cbet feeling I am already beat and he is trying to trap.

 

Turn K       Villian bets out 55,000. Hero?

Shadowplay
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August 25, 2012 - 9:39 pm
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Ok, I'll take a crack at this…

 

Not a fan of your PFR.  A 3.2 raise with only 29BB behind is hardly a “bump”.  I'm looking to make it 2x to 2.3x at most there.  

 

Also, why would him checking to the original raiser OTF be weird?  It seems like a fairly harmless flop so I'm C-Betting this around 40-45% of the pot.

 

If he's leading out OTT on a card like that, I'm not great at ranges but I'm going to go with 77, JJ, KJs, KQs, KQo, AQs, AQo, AKs or AKo (though the AKs hands, I would think he'd 3B, being out of position)  and then possibly TJs (did the turn bring a flush draw?).  I can't see him flatting pre-flop with KK, AA OOP.  I don't think he's flatting QQ pre-flop either (though he might since you raised it so big from UTG).  The donk on the turn,  I don't think he'd try that move with TT or 99 when the K hits, since you make him sound tight.  I'm calling the turn.  Interested to hear what others have to say.  I'm guessing my range is a bit off.  🙂

ShortStackJack
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August 26, 2012 - 12:30 am
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I agree with Shadow that the PF raise is too big for this stage. I like a minraise or just over pre flop.

I would expect most competent player to NOT lead the flop. I don’t see his check as anything but deferring to the PF raiser. He’s out of position, he should be waiting to see what you are doing.

That flop is about as dry as it gets, and i am cbetting it about 100% of the time. If V floats or raises, I start to worry about sets, and may vomit if he leads the turn, but would probably end up getting it in anyway. Might lay it down if I feel like the guy is an uber-nit, but I would feel like a ***** for it.

If I am V, I lead the turn as you showed weakness by checking behind.

As played, I think I raise and see what V does. I think you went wrong not c betting though.

FkCoolers
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August 26, 2012 - 8:58 am
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Why is it weird that the villain checked to the preflop raiser on a very innocuous board?

ShortStackJack
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August 26, 2012 - 9:26 am
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***** is apparently unmentionable female body part … lol

hurricanejeff
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August 26, 2012 - 12:08 pm
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First post on here, trying to be active in the strategy forums over the next few weeks…

Analyzing just the pre flop bet sizing in this post.

Before we just say the PFR bet sizing is bad lets look at how it effects the pot…if you are 9 handed

 

                        pre flop

 

3x:    .75bb(ante) + 3.16bb(bettor) + 3.16bb(caller) + 1bb(big blind) = 8bb

 

min raise:  .75bb(ante)  + 2bb(bettor)  + 2bb(caller) +1bb(big blind) = 5.75bb

I think we also have to factor that depending on the big blinds stack he might flat as well preflop because he will be getting such great odds to a min raise, and much worse odds to a 3.2x preflop. On a min raise he is getting 5.75:1 which means he should be calling a huge range of hands.  On a 3.2x he is getting 4:1 odds narrowing down his calling range forcing hands like 79o q7s just to fold

 

                      3x: post flop 8bb pot

If:  Hero cbets 1/2 pot and villain calls pot = 16bb leaving hero with 22bb left

this is a very awkard stack size so hero has to adjust his bet sizing on the flop to make the turn decision easier.  If they want to set up a pot size bet jam on the turn they have to bet closer to pot.  Aggresive players will get their stacks in on the turn with draws, whether they hit or not, and top pairs. Passive players will most likely bet 1/3-1/4 pot on flop and check back turns when they brick, or will bet 1/2-2/3 pot when they hit.

                     

                     Min raise: post flop 5.75 bb

If:  Hero cbets 2.5bb he will have 24.5bb behind and the pot will be at 6.25bb before the villain acts.

           Villain calls pot is 8.75bb

           Villain raises to 7.5bb pot is 13.75 and this is a very bad spot for the Hero with a 24bb stack.  All in would be betting 24 to win 13.75 or .57:1 odd.  It also puts the added pressure on the hero because he will have to make a decision to maintain his reshove stack.

 

You can make a good arguement for either action, it really depends on your style of play.  If your image is tighter your 3.2x is optimal because your pot size shove on the turn will get folds much more of the time.   For players that like to open a lot of hands as steals they will have to min raise and fold more often post flop when they don't flop good.  Now we have to consider what happens when hero gets 3 bet by a Villain in position. 

 

3.2x will most likely get 3bet very small because the bet is alreayd so big, something like 6.7 which will have make the pot 12.15bb and Hero has 25.8bb behind which isn't a bad 4bet shove stack. 

 

A min raise will change the preflop decision drastically.  Villain will raise to something like 5bb making the pot 9.25bb with the Hero having 27bb behind. 

 

On a table that 3bets a lot you are almost always going to get 3bet with your stack size especially since you are raising UTG.  After assessing the 3bet spots, I actually think 3.2x preflop is optimal considering how you set yourself up for a 4bet. 

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