I wanted to follow up a little bit further on Wein's comment in the Leak discussion post. He mentioned that a common thread was too much slowplaying and needing to play hands faster to prevent lost value. My follow up question(s) on this is: By trying to play crafty and trying (successfully or unsuccessfully) to induce players into stacking off/bluffing off are we in general allowing to many other players to either catch up or represent catching up and losing out on significant value, as opposed to betting strong and playing showdown poker with hands that hit well? I guess the root of my question is this: Does it make more sense to play a strategy that revolves around an image of being willing to take any of your made hands to showdown? For me I think this represents a fairly decent shift in my thinking as my planning for hands usually revolves around trying to be as clever as I can to get my opponent to volunteer (can't think of a better word there) his/her stack to me because he thinks he has the best of it, and moving more to a strategy of allowing my bet sizing to fold out the weaker hands and letting guys who are married to their hands come along and prices I set. Interested in what others think.
July 3, 2010
I think a lot of people slowplay hands that shouldn't be slowplayed such as TPTK or bottom two pair. They don't bet people out of the pot and then fume about people always seeming to get there on the river.
If you watch the videos here you don't ever see these overly intricate plays being done. Everything is 3 betting for value pre-flop or turning your hand into a bluff i.e. raise/folding.
It's building a pot on the flop such that you will be all-in by the river, usually trying to set up close to a pot sized shove on the turn when you have a strong hand but draws are out there.
Personally the fewer hands I bring to showdown the better since you're gathering chips and they're not gathering information. That's a big reason why smaller stakes players spaz out. You haven't shown a hand and they convince themselves you're always bluffing.
Bet sizing is an art. If you're in a hand against a stationy player you want to achieve max value with your bet sizes on each street because they rarely raise. If you're in against a player who perceives himself to be a tricky LAG you'd want to size your bets smaller to induce raises and bluffs.
Makes sense. I am just trying to rationalize how to clean up my play since I think that this may be something that catches me, especially the backing down in the face of draw potential so that I don't get stacked if it hits, rather than better strong and pricing players out of pots. This is surely something that I should start working on. I think I may go back and rewatch the complete session live sweats to see if I can glean a clearer picture of how the pro's tackle this one.
My thoughts on slowplaying are this. There are a few spots you have to cause it is just too likely when you flop the absolute nuts they will fold. Mostly though you are going to be continuation betting your air so if you have been active most villians will assume it is business as usual. If I raise pre and I flop a strong hand I bet the same as I would any other time. No reason not to build a huge pot if possible.
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