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May 1, 2016
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I remember as I was learning the basics of preflop NLHE I had read that you can never really fold KK preflop, no matter how sure you are your opponent has Aces. I’m wondering if you guys feel the same way, or if there’s a chance that folding KK PF in extreme situations can be correct?
Granted, when you have 10, 15, 20 bigs, I don;t see any way of getting away from it. But I mean, if you’re UTG+1 and you see and UTG raise, you 3-bet, and the tightest players known to man (pretend they’re 12/5 VPIP/PFR) 4, 5, and 6-bet AI for over 100 bigs, can you see yourself getting away from it?
Just found myself in a lot of awkward positions yesterday with KK and really deep stacks preflop early in tournaments.
Would it be smarter to not play it so aggressively pre in those situations and try and see a flop? Although, are you really going to be able to get away from it on any ace-less flop anyways?
Curious to hear discussion on this.
February 20, 2015
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It’s an age-old debate to be sure. The only place I would feel confident enough to fold KK is at a home game with predictable players.
September 30, 2015
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In the games I play people are to willing to 4-5 bet with hands such as AK with 100bb+
So I never fold KK
I can see folding them in certain situations with a good read on villian and with 75+bbs, but rare
June 2, 2013
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People will play for stack pre flop with AK and QQ, sometimes with TT too.
I guess you need a really high number of hands to make sure that this specific player is that tight, and only play AA
May 1, 2016
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You’re playing a $22 online tourney, deep stacks. 200 BB effective stacks. You min-raise open UTG with KK, UTG+1 3bets to 6 BB, the CO 4bets to 14 BB, the button to 30 BB, and the BB shoves 200 effective. All players seem on the tighter side, say you have 400 hands on the BB and he’s 15/10/2.1 (VPIP/PFR/3BET). Can you see yourself folding here?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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You should always be thinking in terms of ranges, both what your opponent is likely to have at the current decision point and also how your action is likely to change his range. It’s rare that you can be so certain your opponent will have exactly AA and not QQ or AK, as others have pointed out. But ultimately, it’s just a math problem: you look at your pot odds, and you consider your equity vs the best approximation of his range you can make.
It’s important, though, to try to avoid the situations where you might end up folding AA pre-flop. Like, let’s say you 3-bet with KK, and someone 4-bets you. Rather than just snap 5-betting them back and then feeling sick if they jam, ask yourself why you’re 5-betting? I mean, if you can feel good about calling a shove, then go ahead and 5-bet and call the shove. But if you think your opponent will only jam AA over the 5-bet, you may well be better off just calling.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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rbbeagles13 said
You’re playing a $22 online tourney, deep stacks. 200 BB effective stacks. You min-raise open UTG with KK, UTG+1 3bets to 6 BB, the CO 4bets to 14 BB, the button to 30 BB, and the BB shoves 200 effective. All players seem on the tighter side, say you have 400 hands on the BB and he’s 15/10/2.1 (VPIP/PFR/3BET). Can you see yourself folding here?
Yes, and it’s not close. It’s also not likely to come up. The main reason people tell you not to fold KK pre-flop is that you’re far more likely to end up in a situation where you incorrectly fold than where you correctly fold, so unless you have a lot of confidence in your read, it’s generally better just to stack off. The stack off may occasionally be a mistake, but not as often as a fold will end up being a mistake.
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