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March 28, 2017
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I was in a tournament where top five players win a trip to Vegas and a seat in a 200k tournament. We were down to ~16 players, and I was in the SB with 7.5 bb’s. A player in early position raised to 3 bb’s out of his 25 bb stack, and another player who easily had me covered called.
I had JJ, and clearly had no fold equity, so essentially even if I jammed, I was the caller and not the aggressor, and pot was certain to be multi-way.
I also didn’t think I’d have any FE if I flatted and then jammed any flop.
So…I didn’t want to jam or call, but it seemed crazy to fold JJ pre.
What should hero do? Is this a snap-call, is it a close spot, is it (as seems least likely) a clear fold?
April 28, 2017
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fritz said
I was in a tournament where top five players win a trip to Vegas and a seat in a 200k tournament. We were down to ~16 players, and I was in the SB with 7.5 bb’s. A player in early position raised to 3 bb’s out of his 25 bb stack, and another player who easily had me covered called.I had JJ, and clearly had no fold equity, so essentially even if I jammed, I was the caller and not the aggressor, and pot was certain to be multi-way.
I also didn’t think I’d have any FE if I flatted and then jammed any flop.
So…I didn’t want to jam or call, but it seemed crazy to fold JJ pre.
What should hero do? Is this a snap-call, is it a close spot, is it (as seems least likely) a clear fold?
I’ll preface my post by saying that I am by no means an expert in sattelite tournaments.
I personally think that with only 5 players getting paid, 16 players is still a pretty sizable field. With only 7.5bb I would take this spot and just accept it that 1.5 or 2 times out of 3 I will bust righ there and then, and the other times I’ll probably guarantee myself that package. JJ just seems a bit too strong to lay down. Just my 2 uninformed cents.
June 2, 2013
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I am not an expert on sats too, but I guess depends on the stack sizes at this moment, if you have 7.5bb and you are top 3 with chips or if you are short stack… close to the bubble seems a fold to me, on the bubble i fold if i am not short with a bid diference in stacks.
October 21, 2012
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Yes get it in. Pre is better than post I think. You dont have a stack that is likely to cash mostly likely. You need to gamble for chips and this is one of the best spots you will have to double or triple up.
February 5, 2015
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As far as I am concerned this is, with respect, a no brainer…but then again I have often left my brain behind when posting at TPE, so I might well have left a crucial nugget of info. out the equation! You are nowhere near the bubble it seems. On the bubble, or very close to it, it is a fold, but 5 paid/ 16 left? I am having spasms of ecstasy here with jj!
You have 7.5bb’s. Why do you think this seems like a “clear fold”?
March 28, 2017
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The Riceman said
As far as I am concerned this is, with respect, a no brainer…but then again I have often left my brain behind when posting at TPE, so I might well have left a crucial nugget of info. out the equation! You are nowhere near the bubble it seems. On the bubble, or very close to it, it is a fold, but 5 paid/ 16 left? I am having spasms of ecstasy here with jj!You have 7.5bb’s. Why do you think this seems like a “clear fold”?
No, I said a clear fold seems the least likely of the three options.
Yes, you are all correct, I should have shoved. This was just a moment of cowardice. I’ve always shoved Jacks in that spot. I think it was just the knowing that I would have two callers that gave me the willies. I hate calling off my stack and try desperately to be the aggressor. In this case even though I would have been first to shove, with the raise and call in front of me, I would have been essentially calling bc no FE.
Thanks all for the feedback.
February 5, 2015
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Sorry! I misread your post.
Fritz said
“I hate calling off my stack and try desperately to be the aggressor.”
Mistaken thinking here. I used to think exactly the same as that, always wanting to be the one putting others to the decision. It is true that when we shove we have two ways to win the hand…villain can fold or we can beat his hand, but this doesn’t mean we should never be the ones calling a shove, even vs. multiple villains.
Sometimes we are just ahead of their range.
In the hand in question, I’m hoping the V1 has an ace, and whilst less likely, V2 also has an ace.
Thinking like yours on display here had me folding way, way, way too much vs. late position steal shoves from the blinds. Get yourself a chipEV calculator and study your Nash call ranges (as well as your shove ranges!).
[congrats to TPE for > 10000 members!]
May 30, 2012
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Its been said that there are 3 ways to play pocket jacks and they’re all wrong. Its true, that it is one one those most hated hands (like AQo). The exception is when you have less than 20bbs. It looks like AA to me in that situation.
May 30, 2012
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agree with others…………. Ur down to 7 bbs GET IT IN. If it’s a cooler, it sucks. Ur ahead of the caller if not both. LFG……….. I hope you won.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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If there were 6-8 players left, this is a tougher spot. But with 16 left, you still have to survive for ages if you want to get the package. This is a comfortable get it in spot. Can’t fold. Probably wouldn’t fold 88 here.
I don’t know why you’re talking in terms of caller or aggressor – you’re getting it in or folding, it doesn’t really matter. You’re right that you have no fold equity but that just makes this an even simpler math problem. You’re crushing both players’ ranges so there’s no reason to worry about being multi-way. There’s some variance of course, but when you triple up to 24bb 40% of the time, that’s pretty awesome.
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