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Flopped Set - What am I doing wrong? NOT ONE SINGLE STREET OF VALUE
tigerspeck
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January 11, 2011 - 9:59 pm
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Full Tilt Poker Daily Double – B No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t30/t60 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Pleiadian1 (UTG+1): t5575 92.92 BBs
toivoskala (UTG+2): t2905 48.42 BBs
jonpat (MP1): t2925 48.75 BBs
mkqueens (MP2): t6250 104.17 BBs
tigerspeck (CO): t4105 68.42 BBs
tight247 (BTN): t3040 50.67 BBs
muffman5 (SB): t2610 43.50 BBs
amfish88 (BB): t4180 69.67 BBs
Olech13 (UTG): t3145 52.42 BBs

Pre Flop: (t90) tigerspeck is CO with J of hearts J of spades
Olech13 raises to t180, 1 fold, toivoskala calls t180, 2 folds, tigerspeck raises to t399, 2 folds, amfish88 calls t339, Olech13 calls t219, toivoskala calls t219

Flop: (t1626) J of clubs 6 of clubs 8 of diamonds (4 players)
amfish88 checks, Olech13 checks, toivoskala checks, tigerspeck bets t445, amfish88 folds, Olech13 folds, toivoskala folds

Final Pot: t1626
tigerspeck wins t1626

 

Please tell me what I am doing wrong? Where  am I missing value?

Do I cbet bigger? Smaller?

I feel I am missing so many spots where I can be getting value where I flop a set on FD board like this….

chechebobos
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January 11, 2011 - 10:20 pm
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I like flatting pre flop. You can 3 bet but.. this early, you will get a lot of calls. As played, I think your bet is perfectly fine.

southpaw_r32
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January 11, 2011 - 10:41 pm
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If it were me I'm betting more on the flop, around 900. Like you say, there's a FD there but it's a very wet board with plenty of combo draws, (Tc9c, 9c7c, QcTc, Qc9c also QQ might be out there etc) you don't want to give them the odds to call. Also, a set of 88's/66's could be out there.

 

Also, IF i'm 3betting this PF i'm making it minimum 600.

bennymacca
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January 11, 2011 - 11:30 pm
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i think your bet sizing on the flop is fine, but i would have gone to like 680 preflop

 

other than that, you cant check flop because you dont want the flush draws to get there cheap, and if they dont have anything else then you cant do much about it

guitey
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January 12, 2011 - 5:13 am
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I like flatting pre here this early with these stacks, unless I have a read that someone will just stick it in lite which is def possible in daily doubles. But as others have said, if you 3b you gotta make it bigger, I like 650ish, but if you 3b you have to be calling a shove which means you should have a read that they will stack off lite etc. Don't just 3b because you have JJ and there's 2 ppl in the pot,  plus the raise and call comes from EP where if they do come over the top and they aren't spewing then you are in trouble. As for the flop I bet bigger, like 800, but looks like you weren't getting value from anyone no matter what here, sometimes it goes like that, just concentrate on your own actions.

lespaulgman
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January 12, 2011 - 1:11 pm
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I think you need to step back a little and think about your whole line here to understand why you didn't get any more value. Look at the pre-flop action, you get a UTG open to 3x and a call from UTG+2. What are the hand ranges that are doing that. You have to figure that UTG opening (without any other specific information) is probably something like 77+, AJs+, KQs that sort of stuff and the flat from UTG+2 from my experience is a lot of suited broadways and high suited connectors. That being said you 3bet the something like 2.4x. What is your perceived range with this kind of a move. You are 3betting, but smaller. Looks a lot like KK+, AK there. You want more value, but you don't want to scare everyone off. You pick another caller out of the BB (ATC is possible, but not likely here. My guess is suited connectors, suited one gappers that sort of stuff). Flop comes down J 6 8 with 2 clubs and you lead out for 25% pot into 4 opponents. I think based on your line not many people are going to be calling you here as this flop doesn't really do much for anyones range. Based on your actual holding there aren't really any TP type hands that could have been made out there (very very rare that the last J is out there). The J probably gives the UTG and UTG+2 villains some 3 straights, but that is about it. Factoring in perceived card removal based on your actions and they can't be very confident that they are going to do anything but chop or may not get there because you could be holding the top of the broadway, so no real way the continue there. the 6 and the 8 are cards that can hit the calling range of the BB under normal circumstances, but give all of the action in front, I don't think he is sitting there with 57 or 79 very often. Flush Draws just aren't all that common and with 2 on the board chances are no one has them or will be chasing (or at least very small <5% or so)

 

That all being said, I think awareness of your own line and perceived range is a huge part of these types of situations. This entire hand your repped a huge hand so the only way you are getting called or played with is by a monster that in all likelyhood has your set of J's crushed. Flatting here given how deep you are and the other stacks in the hand are would be more valuable I think. Your hand would be very well disguised and a lot more people with draws would be inclined to play at least to the turn with you giving you some shot at increased value.

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Metasploit
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January 14, 2011 - 12:32 pm
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Very well said Lespaulgman!

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