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Flatting IP with 20-25/30BB
JacquetK
Playing Freerolls
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December 6, 2014 - 11:01 am
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Dear TPE Members,

I've recently been reviewing my MTT sessions filtering for hands between the 20 to 30 BB range. 

I'd like to share a (fairly normal) pre-flop spot & ask a few quesitons about how the hand/our actions should change based on a few adaptations. 

Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t75/t150 Blinds + t20 - 9 players - View hand 2620270
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

Hero (MP1): BB = 21.4, t3203
zavor (MP2): BB = 37.8, t5663
karimmulla (CO): BB = 64.3, t9641
Kashmir_uzi (BTN): BB = 19.5, t2928
shiblyboy (SB): BB = 76.9, t11530
gray31 (BB): BB = 20.9, t3140
venced0r (UTG): BB = 55.3, t8289
ChKo (UTG+1): BB = 44.7, t6703
Tr!pleeeee (UTG+2): BB = 21.5, t3232

Pre Flop: (t405) Hero is MP1 with K
 of clubs
J
 of clubs
2 folds, Tr!pleeeee raises to t300, 6 folds


Villain (Tripleee) was playing 21/14/10 over 56 hands. 
His raise first in was 0 (EP) / 38 (MP) / 0 (CO) / 50 (BTN). 
Cbet% was 50% over 2 hands & FCB 50% over 2 hands. 
Villain has 22BB 

I was playing 19/17/9 over 56 hands
My raise first in was 17 (EP)/ 18 (MP) / 67 (CO) / 100 (BTN)
CB% was 100% over 1 hand & FCB 100% over 1 hand 
I have 21BB

The players left to act are normal regs, no big fishes or aggro/squeeze happy players left to act.
Every player left to act has around 30-45 bb, so no re-shove stacks 

The hypothetical question here: Do we have a flat calling range in this exact spot?
–> I think not, maybe with KK or AA if we're trapping & expect our opp not to perceive this to be very strong

My question: What has to change for us in order to have a flat calling range here?
 –> Could we flat with these exact stack sizes if we have a good read on our opp & on how he plays postflop? (= hypothetical, not based on the info we have of this opp) 
  –> He plays fit/fold, checks when he's ready to fold, bets if he has it? 
  –> He usually gives up after his cbet gets called –>  floating & betting if he checks the turn has a high succesrate

–> If our opp isn't that 'easy to play against', what has to change for us to profitably flat in position with this exact hand? (when no squeeze-happy players or re-shove stacks are left to act)
  –> Effective stacks: more like 25bbs? 30 bbs? & why? 

–> How does this change based on the hand we would like to flat? 
  –> SC's & small pairs? If we expect to get at least 10x the amount of money we have to invest (= the call) & this obviously depends on the opp you're facing (will he keep barreling when you x-call or will he not invest a lot with a marginal made hand). We probably don't have this too often with 20-25bbs
  –> Middle pairs? Are we going to face too many tough decision with a 25bb stack when we flat here & should we thus simply fold pre to the open?
  –> Suited broadways that aren't the nuts (KQ,KJ,KT, QJ,QT,JT): We aren't really happy getting it in postflop here with only toppair for 20-25bb, so should we just fold our hand? Should we wait to play it when we're deeper?

I know we can still 3b these hands versus a player that opens a lot & always folds or 4bets with a very nutty range (top 5%) but this is a purely hypothetical post where I would like to talk about flatting IP with 20-25/30BB range & what (effective stack size, hand strength, opp's tendencies pre-flop, opp's tendencies post-flop,… ) should change for us to profitably flat IP.

Thanks in advance & good luck at the tables! 

folding_aces_pre_yo
High Stakes Mario Kart Propping
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December 6, 2014 - 1:29 pm
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I've always have trouble with this stacksize , with which hands should we flat IP with 20-30bb stacksize. 

 

This book i was reading called the raisers edge has a section on playing different stack sizes and that pretty much guided me. 

 

1 thing for sure is though , flatting small pairs with this stacksize is a big mistake , i'd much rather 3-bet shove/f against a opponent that opens a ton. If he's tight though i'll just let go and move on to the next hand, easy game.

 

Poker is a dynamical game and their's a lot of variables involved as you know ,  you just have to ajust to different situations , like u said your opponents tendencies will be a factor to it.

 

as for which hands you should flat IP , the answer is again “it depends” 

 

 for instance against a MP1 open (20bb effective) hero on the button If we know he's loose and raise/folds often we could 3-bet shove (resteal)  or flat IP with a hand that plays very well post flop however if he's on the tighter tighter side flatting can be a option or maybe even folding. against a very tight opponent its a easy fold clearly. 

 

also i'd like to add you may want to consider flatting with strong hands like JJ+  (20-30bb) against players that open a ton and that are loose aggro , once u get to the flop you're most likely to stack off with a hand that dominants your opponents range of hands.

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