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Flat pre, four way flop promises carnage
Gareth Chantler
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April 29, 2013 - 4:20 am
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Ok so this is a complicated spot. Let me break down villains preflop. 
 

UTG+1 is playing 41/0/1 over 37 hands. Two things about this. One, they probably have a lot of the possible JJ-AA/AQ/AK combos here. Two, their overall range though is obviously quite weak and keeping them in has value. 

 

MP2 is playing 19/8/2 over 150 hands. 

 

CO is new and unknown and hails from Brazil. 

 

I can probably profitably three-bet get it in to 4444 v the CO, but I don't really want to for 40 bigs. We are approaching bubble, and its a huge big soft tournament. Course, I could be wrong. 

 

Poker Stars $50+$5 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t200/t400 Blinds + t50 – 9 players – View hand 2194489
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

MP2: BB = 53.7, t21488
CO: BB = 42.3, t16929
Hero (BTN): BB = 45.6, t18248
SB: BB = 8.3, t3330
BB: BB = 24.9, t9956
UTG: BB = 24.9, t9954
UTG+1: BB = 102.7, t41078
UTG+2: BB = 15.7, t6285
MP1: BB = 30.7, t12261

Pre Flop: (t1050) Hero is BTN with T of hearts T of diamonds
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t400, 2 folds, MP2 calls t400, CO raises to t2000, Hero calls t2000, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t1600, MP2 calls t1600

Flop: (t9050) T of spades J of hearts Q of spades (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO bets t4000, Hero 

 

Careful what you wish for 🙂 

florianm1
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April 29, 2013 - 6:42 am
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Hello,

 

with a guy hailing from brazil i most likely get this in pre CO vs BTN 42BB eff with all the dead money.

 

flop is really a though cookie. i am not much concerned with the l/c`ers pre but more with the OR and cbetting such a wet board. 

seems that he is reasonably strong here but still i dont see me folding bottom set here too often. 

 

i make it 9999 and evaluate based on the action. there might be a chance that i fold if all 3 go completely nuts and want to put the chips in pre

 

cheers

duggs
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April 29, 2013 - 7:59 am
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I think its pretty optimistic to gii expecting to have the required equity v a random. fine with preflop, flop is a doozy tho i probably just raise flop since a random probably doesnt get away from AA/KK with a gutter. but then again any kind of 3way action is terrible since AK is possible from 2/3 players in hand, and QJ/J10/QJ can leave us drawing extremely dead 3 way. but equally so many draws out there. ugh i dunno i think i flat flop. ill get back to you

Foucault

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April 29, 2013 - 10:18 am
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I can't see getting away from a set with an of SPR of 2. Think I'd just shove flop. I like the preflop flat and pretty much agree with your reasoning there.

packallama
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May 3, 2013 - 12:28 am
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^^ Shove over flop CB and hope for the best.

Sprangle
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May 3, 2013 - 2:54 am
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Originally, I thought I was with Pac. One of them obviously has at least a draw to something everytime. There is no “value” to keeping anyone in the hand at this point because your hand is too vulnerable. Without 3-betting here, you don't have any info and have given up your positional advantage in the sense that if you 3bet and get a call, the caller is 9/10 time checking to you. 

 

As played, I actually think I am flatting here and re-evaulating the turn. If a 4 card straight hits the turn, I am shutting it down and moving on with my 30 bbs…..unless the villian bets something super small where I know my odds (coupled with river implied odds) to hit a boat are giving me the right price.

 

My style of play is weird tho….definitely depends on the feel.  It's hope it's not like that Darvin Moon “I had the nuts, when you see me on TV you will say 'He's a honest man'” hand. Basically, I think you have to 3bet in this spot over a guy who is obviously trying to iso limpers. The utg limper I dont think ever has AA-JJ here because if he limped to slow play, once he sees you call the PFR from the button it's shove time for him. Either way, if you three bet it looks super strong and you find out really quick what you are up against. Bubble play is way better agg than passive.

CCuster 911
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May 4, 2013 - 6:18 pm
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Hmm, interesting spot.  Here are my thoughts.

 

The flat pre seems fine, readless getting it in here is optimistic at best.  3 betting isnt the worst of the options, but its effectively turning a great hand into a meh spot.

 

On the flop we have a couple things going on.  We have the best hand here a majority of the time.  Is shoving profitable? yes obviously we have a set lol.  However lets look at calling here. First lets evaluate the cards that we dont want to see.  Bascially if we call, we expect the two bad limpers(MP2 may not be bad but whatever) to call with anything resembling a draw.  The cards we dont want to see are a/k/8/9, all other cards are somehwat fine for us.

 

Now before you say it, i know there is a flush draw, the problem arises with whether or not a shove is getting these flush draws to fold.  what we are most worried about here with flatting is keeping in hands that would fold to a shove(something like A9 or something), and letting them get there.  Odds are anybody that got to this flop with two spades is now never folding.

 

So we are afraid of 4 cards, or about 25% of the deck(roughly).  So 75% of the time on the turn we expect to be happy about where we stand and can get it in, again with the best hand a lot. 

 

Obviously are goal when flatting here is to get money in from the 2 people that checked that wouldnt have put money in if we shoved.  So if you have a read they will do this a lot, then I like calling.

 

Shoving on the other hand, is definitely +EV and takes out a lot of the guesswork.  I would probably default to shoving here without reads that the two limpers are going to donate/spaz.

 

Shoving also has the added value of getting max value when flush draws miss, its not guaranteed a flush draw will gii with you on the turn if its a blank. with only 1 card to come.  however calling could get a weak hand to check shove frmoa  limper, then CO can get in a ahnd liek AA/KK/AQ thnking he has to have a better hand then you lol.  This spot can really go either way.

For Coaching - ccuster911@gmail.com - HH Reviews/Leak Finder(HEM or PT)/Concept Discussion

MovesLikeDarvin
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May 6, 2013 - 2:42 pm
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like either r/c flop or just jamming flop, spr is small since pot is huge.

preflop is fine as well 

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