November 18, 2013
I was at the final table of a 150 player tournament last night. When the final table started I was in about 3rd or 4th place with about 30-35 BB. The table had no very short stacks and a few decent aggressive players in the 15-18BB range.
I was very card dead at the beginning of the FT. The few chances I did get to open were with hands like A9o or QTs. Both times I was in middle position and faced a shove from one of the 15-18 BB blinds. Each time this happened I folded. These middle stacks seemed to be employing the re-shove very effectively against me.
I'm wondering what the best way is to counter them?
a) Look for chances to 3-bet myself. This was hard because the two players on my immediate right were very nitty and unlikely to raise/fold and the player to their right was frequently opening, but also frequently talking himself into a pot odds call with hands like J8s or A6o.
b) Call the 15-20 BB re-shoves wider. This would make their 3-bets less immediately likely to show a profit but also increase my risk and and seems like an ICM mistake.
c) Have a limping range so the medium stacks need to risk more relative to the pot with a preflop shove and use the position advantage to steal post-flop?
d) Just keep playing tight and folding up the ladder?
November 24, 2013
Well, its hard to answer that that since we dont know your 3bet and your shove-calling ranges (a, b). Most generally speaking, you should ofc always tailor these ranges to the ppl still in the hand. If you perceive their 3bet shoving ranges as wide, then should call wider, sure.
The question is whether that observation is correct or if you only perceive it like that. I mean its easy to get a few good cards here and there, and the shortstacks are usually more concerned about the payout jumps than you are. Thats why you usually dont see too crazy action by the shortstacks on final tables. ICM is not that huge a factor when you still have a workable stack if you lose. As for c) anything that confuses your opponents is usually good but if you only limp because you're afraid of the action to come, villains will probably perceive the limp for exactly as what it is: weakness.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
a) It's always going to be difficult to find spots to 3-bet bluff as a middle stack at a final table. The bigger stacks can pressure you a lot, and the smaller stacks can force you to either call their reshove or fold, which is often going to end in a fold. It's simply correct to do a lot of folding at final tables when you're 7/8/9-handed and ICM has a significant effect on whether you can get it in preflop for a big chunk of your stack or not. Don't try to force it and end up bleeding yourself down to a short stack.
b) Your calling range should always be dependent on your opponent's shoving range. I doubt there's any blanket adjustment you can make here that would improve things – just make sure you're willing to call off wider in spots where your opponent's shoving range is wide and ICM isn't too sharp. Get yourself a copy of HoldemResources Calculator and run some calculations, it's great practice.
c) No. There's no reason to start including a limping range once you get to the final table. If anything, it's going to make it much easier for other players too pick on you.
d) Sometimes playing tight is appropriate, sometimes it's not. It all depends on the table, the ICM-awareness of the other players, the skill level of the other players, etc. There's no blanket advice here. But if you're having trouble with ICM, then the only answer is to study ICM situations and figure out where the adaptations are that you're not making. The advice above about getting a copy of HRC (or ICMIZER, a good alternative) is probably the best I can offer. A program like that will teach you more than any one forum post ever could.
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