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Facing 3b with QQ from UTG open....
KingCards
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June 20, 2019 - 6:19 pm
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WSOP event #48 $2,500 NLH 

 

Open UTG QQ 700 from 17,000 stack @ 100/200/200
UTG +1 call
UTG +2 call
UTG+ 3 3b to 3000

Folds back to me……

(No player reads) All have me covered

Foucault

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June 20, 2019 - 7:44 pm
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Would be good to get your thoughts here first on the merits of calling vs raising (don’t fold!)…

KingCards
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June 20, 2019 - 9:25 pm
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Foucault said
Would be good to get your thoughts here first on the merits of calling vs raising (don’t fold!)…  

I don’t think we have enough 4b bluffs here to 4b QQ…don’t think we’re being squeeze called with TT/JJ/AQ often enough (think these hands are mostly flatting pre)

Calling verse raising allows us to keep range advantage with a strong disguised hand. Also without any info I think flatting is better…….

Foucault

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June 21, 2019 - 12:31 am
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Yeah you aren’t going to be in great shape if a shove is called, main argument for doing it would be for the fold equity (remember, there are two other players in the pot) who will have position on you postflop if they call. Even at low SPR, QQ doesn’t fare that well in a four-way pot. You’ll have a strong range for calling, but I wouldn’t expect to have either an equity or nuts advantage on any flop. If you think you’re in good shape vs the 3-betting range, you should probably shove. I’m inclined to call because I don’t think you’re in particularly good shape vs the 3-bet range. I might even end up check-folding an overpair on some boards.

KingCards
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June 21, 2019 - 1:37 pm
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Foucault said
Yeah you aren’t going to be in great shape if a shove is called, main argument for doing it would be for the fold equity (remember, there are two other players in the pot) who will have position on you postflop if they call. Even at low SPR, QQ doesn’t fare that well in a four-way pot. You’ll have a strong range for calling, but I wouldn’t expect to have either an equity or nuts advantage on any flop. If you think you’re in good shape vs the 3-betting range, you should probably shove. I’m inclined to call because I don’t think you’re in particularly good shape vs the 3-bet range. I might even end up check-folding an overpair on some boards.  

Thanks for you input ?

DuckinDaDeck
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June 24, 2019 - 7:57 pm
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To echo Foucault’s answer, I think you’re best calling and playing flops cautiously. Despite laying villains excellent pot odds, you’re by no means guaranteed to see the flop 4 or even 3 way.

I think shoveling 85bb into the pot with QQ after opening UTG is going to be pretty disastrous in the long run. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s okay vs. hyper aggro players that like squeezing but, even then, for someone to 3b in MP they have to be aware that 5 more players could wake up with monsters, not to mention the UTG raiser. Even against maniacs, I think I prefer flatting with a plan to check-raise shove most heads-up flops that don’t have an A or K.

Readless, I’m going to strongly consider folding to bets on flops that don’t contain a Q, especially if multiple players see the flop. It’s kind of sick to commit 18% of your stack only to fold an overpair, but you’re not exactly crushing a range as wide as JJ+ and AK. Many players will be much tighter when they cbet after that preflop action. That said, depending on bet sizing and (to a lesser extent) flop texture, calling once in a heads-up pot and seeing how the turn plays out can’t be atrocious.

nkarapet
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June 27, 2019 - 3:40 pm
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Is it to fishy consider not all in raise? Like 8500-ish? If shoved I can fold and have 35BB stack which is playable. If called… well bad scenario. May be still; check fold on no Q flop.

Foucault

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June 27, 2019 - 6:08 pm
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What would be the advantage of this?

nkarapet
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July 2, 2019 - 9:14 pm
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I was thinking as alternative to shove. I definitely isolate to HU. If shoved pre I probably still can fold (may be not 🙁 )

If called I probably have nut advantage on some flops and can play poker? Or on havvy action fold and same half of my stack?

Foucault

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July 2, 2019 - 11:05 pm
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Sounds like you are just thinking about how you could have played the hand better given his actual holding. In the moment, you didn’t know what he had, and you have to consider the best play against a range of possible hands.

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