View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Facing 3b with QQ from UTG open....
KingCards
Guppy
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
July 23, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
June 20, 2019 - 6:19 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

WSOP event #48 $2,500 NLH 

 

Open UTG QQ 700 from 17,000 stack @ 100/200/200
UTG +1 call
UTG +2 call
UTG+ 3 3b to 3000

Folds back to me……

(No player reads) All have me covered

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
June 20, 2019 - 7:44 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Would be good to get your thoughts here first on the merits of calling vs raising (don’t fold!)…

KingCards
Guppy
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
July 23, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
June 20, 2019 - 9:25 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Foucault said
Would be good to get your thoughts here first on the merits of calling vs raising (don’t fold!)…  

I don’t think we have enough 4b bluffs here to 4b QQ…don’t think we’re being squeeze called with TT/JJ/AQ often enough (think these hands are mostly flatting pre)

Calling verse raising allows us to keep range advantage with a strong disguised hand. Also without any info I think flatting is better…….

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
June 21, 2019 - 12:31 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Yeah you aren’t going to be in great shape if a shove is called, main argument for doing it would be for the fold equity (remember, there are two other players in the pot) who will have position on you postflop if they call. Even at low SPR, QQ doesn’t fare that well in a four-way pot. You’ll have a strong range for calling, but I wouldn’t expect to have either an equity or nuts advantage on any flop. If you think you’re in good shape vs the 3-betting range, you should probably shove. I’m inclined to call because I don’t think you’re in particularly good shape vs the 3-bet range. I might even end up check-folding an overpair on some boards.

KingCards
Guppy
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
July 23, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
June 21, 2019 - 1:37 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Foucault said
Yeah you aren’t going to be in great shape if a shove is called, main argument for doing it would be for the fold equity (remember, there are two other players in the pot) who will have position on you postflop if they call. Even at low SPR, QQ doesn’t fare that well in a four-way pot. You’ll have a strong range for calling, but I wouldn’t expect to have either an equity or nuts advantage on any flop. If you think you’re in good shape vs the 3-betting range, you should probably shove. I’m inclined to call because I don’t think you’re in particularly good shape vs the 3-bet range. I might even end up check-folding an overpair on some boards.  

Thanks for you input ?

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
6
June 24, 2019 - 7:57 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

To echo Foucault’s answer, I think you’re best calling and playing flops cautiously. Despite laying villains excellent pot odds, you’re by no means guaranteed to see the flop 4 or even 3 way.

I think shoveling 85bb into the pot with QQ after opening UTG is going to be pretty disastrous in the long run. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s okay vs. hyper aggro players that like squeezing but, even then, for someone to 3b in MP they have to be aware that 5 more players could wake up with monsters, not to mention the UTG raiser. Even against maniacs, I think I prefer flatting with a plan to check-raise shove most heads-up flops that don’t have an A or K.

Readless, I’m going to strongly consider folding to bets on flops that don’t contain a Q, especially if multiple players see the flop. It’s kind of sick to commit 18% of your stack only to fold an overpair, but you’re not exactly crushing a range as wide as JJ+ and AK. Many players will be much tighter when they cbet after that preflop action. That said, depending on bet sizing and (to a lesser extent) flop texture, calling once in a heads-up pot and seeing how the turn plays out can’t be atrocious.

nkarapet
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 60
Member Since:
November 6, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
7
June 27, 2019 - 3:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Is it to fishy consider not all in raise? Like 8500-ish? If shoved I can fold and have 35BB stack which is playable. If called… well bad scenario. May be still; check fold on no Q flop.

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
8
June 27, 2019 - 6:08 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

What would be the advantage of this?

nkarapet
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 60
Member Since:
November 6, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
9
July 2, 2019 - 9:14 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I was thinking as alternative to shove. I definitely isolate to HU. If shoved pre I probably still can fold (may be not 🙁 )

If called I probably have nut advantage on some flops and can play poker? Or on havvy action fold and same half of my stack?

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
10
July 2, 2019 - 11:05 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Sounds like you are just thinking about how you could have played the hand better given his actual holding. In the moment, you didn’t know what he had, and you have to consider the best play against a range of possible hands.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
29 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

sdmathis89

ne0x00

adrianvaida2525

Anteeater

Laggro

Philbro

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 12007

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1