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Extracting value w/ flopped trips
WackyJuan
Grinding Micros
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December 26, 2013 - 1:12 pm
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Merge – NL (6 max) – Holdem – 6 players

UTG (UTG): 2,535
MP (MP): 2,590
Hero (CO): 4,935
BTN (BTN): 7,304
SB (SB): 10,995 (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 17.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 29)
BB (BB): 2,726

6 players post ante of 10, SB posts SB 50, BB posts BB 100

Dealt to Hero: Ac Qc

fold, fold, Hero raises to 230, fold, SB raises to 655, fold, Hero calls 425

Flop (1,470, 2 players): Qh 3s Qd
SB bets 735, Hero calls 735

Turn (2,940, 2 players): 8c
SB checks, Hero ???

On the turn, hero's stack at 3,535 is only 1/5 more than the pot.  

What's the best play to get SB to give max value?  Would a flop raise have been in order?  Bet less on the turn as played on the flop?  

Thanks for your opinions.

rlamanna
Guppy
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December 26, 2013 - 4:03 pm
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Honestly, I don't think you ever get much value here. This board is very dry, and your flat on the flop is very strong I believe. Considering he hasn't 3bet, I would need to know the table dynamics. What's your VPIP/PFR? Have you been folding to 3bets? Need to assign a range to villian before we can make the necessary bet sizing to extract value. If he's 3betting as a resteal, you won't get anymore. If he's 3betting only premiums, you may be able to extract value from AA or KK. QQ is obviously not a possibility, and AK would likely shut down.

jacobsharktank
Florida
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December 26, 2013 - 4:04 pm
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well his stats sort of look like mine, like it's approaching lag and getting there. why hasn't he 3bet yet? that sort of tells me why he's 3betting now. i give people way too much credit for being smart, though. if he's a reg and can 3b/cbet oop light, it looks like you got max value as 3betting and cbetting is super easy. I dont think that turn is a good barrel card, so it's easy to give up. if, however, he's checking because he knows youre floating lots and he has showdown value when only gutshot draws are apparent, then you need to decide what bet bet looks like as compared to simply shove turn/river. I love math, but because I spent way too much time in high school/college studying it, I tend to end up doing things by feel. feeling says to check to induce a river call when you shove. really though, this appears like he's just shutting down the majority of the time. he can fall into ck/call mode with pairs 99-AA but how many combos are there compared to other hands that 3b here when doing it light? 5×6 combos + (1 qq combo) = 30 pair combos you beat. with his pfr/vpip stats i'm assuming he's 3betting at least AJ+ and there are lots of other playable hands i'd like to 3bet there. do you have any reads other than posted? i don't ever see a need to raise flop here unless you KNOW he's only 3betting monsters AND he's willing to get them in stubbornly idk. like think about how often he calls a raise and youre aheads vs how often you make more letting him keep control on the turn. his turn range is much wider when you call than when you raise his flop cbet, which should be apparent if you just think about what happens after you raise. if he spazzes against you because of some dynamic, by all means raise your nizzut type hands, but i like call for reasons described.

WackyJuan
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December 26, 2013 - 4:43 pm
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Up to this point in the tourney (34 hands in) I'm at an 18/13 and I've only played 29 hands with the villain.  I had folded to the only 3bet that I'd faced so far.  Maybe he was just counting on my fold pre.  But OOP from the SB he didn't raise enough to get me to fold.  I'm calling this 3b all day with most of my opening range when IP and a 49bb stack.  He's made one pretty aggressive play and another passive until he hit the turn:

UTG opened/c squeeze w/ATs, 3way flop nut fd+gs raise ai over pre-flop 3better

BB call 3way w/T6s, f TP ck, t trips bet and river bet

I was hoping for a turn cbet, but he didn't follow through.

markconkle
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December 27, 2013 - 9:50 am
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I like check turn, shove river.  It lets you get value from any desperation bluffs but also potentially from AA, KK that is pot controlling.  Of course, it's possible he has a Q and is slowplaying the turn in which case you probably get it in whatever you do.

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