sammyboy said:

my instant reaction was to play as you did, but I have a turbo sng background and these iso jams are common play with shorter stacks.  However we are 80bb deep here, and like you say cant give button credit for top o his range.

How about making it 5k?  Lets limper and button know youve got a hand, and they will probs release.  Although you did say button was agg, is he likely to shove over your cold 4bet light?

As i type this its sounds awful to put in 5k (33bb) and fold to aggro button 5bet, but we would have 50bb left if we fold to his potential 5bet……

 

Interested in others thoughts on this….

Making it 5k does one of three things in my mind here, #1 it puts me playing jacks out of position vs potentially two players one being pretty hard to play against out of position, #2 it gets them to fold which is the same result I'm trying to achieve by shoving, #3 it exploits the limper if he's trapping and it narrows the buttons range a bit for me but I just cant see it profitable to raise fold like 40% of my stack pre even though we still would be pretty deep. Anyway, limper instafolded and button got agitated that I shoved he tanked for a bit and called with AKo, SB shows KQo and I assume the limper had face/face for a smaller PP. The board ran out xxA/x/K all in all I wasnt upset I felt I got my money in slightly ahead for a massive pot against one of the better players in the tourny.

hawkeyeK9 said:

Calling, raising, and iso jamming seems spewy imo. The pot is already 4bet and you have JJ oop with 2 players to act behind you. So not worth it imo, you are very deep and no need for this spot. You will get another big hand down the road, fold this one. I feel like people get a big pair and feel like they have to play it in some way, I disagree with this.

So you're folding JJ to an aggerssive players button raise whos range your crush 3/4 times if not more and a very short stacks jam? How can you give either of them credit for better than jacks or determine you don't have FE that deep?

hawkeyeK9 said:

flgtb786 said:

hawkeyeK9 said:

Calling, raising, and iso jamming seems spewy imo. The pot is already 4bet and you have JJ oop with 2 players to act behind you. So not worth it imo, you are very deep and no need for this spot. You will get another big hand down the road, fold this one. I feel like people get a big pair and feel like they have to play it in some way, I disagree with this.

So you're folding JJ to an aggerssive players button raise whos range your crush 3/4 times if not more and a very short stacks jam? How can you give either of them credit for better than jacks or determine you don't have FE that deep?

I definitely see what your saying. I tend to be some what cautious when I am this deep and an aggressive villian has me covered. My reason for a fold here is that villian on the button raises pretty big with a MP limper before him and it doesnt seem that light (I am going off the info given: stack sizes, positions, ur reads), even aggressive players wake up when they got the button. Second, with limited info my thought is that SB villian has a big hand if he still jams when the buttons big raise looks like it will never fold to his stack (and last hand u saw from him was AA). I think if you are gonna play the hand I might just call instead of iso jam incase you are in bad shape. I fold for reasons above and JJ is very vulnerable and not worth it when you have a good stack.

yea I go back and forth I mean we are super deep so its tough, calling off my stack is a cardinal sin in my mind its the best way to put yourself in bad shape thats my only thought against the flat I can see how people might play this different but after talking with a few people and this post I'm happy with my play.