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Easy fold with no reads?
daveyt86
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January 17, 2014 - 5:53 pm
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 Moved to table 12 hands ago and havent seen them play any hands so have no reads

 

 

Poker Stars $10+$1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t150/t300 Blinds + t40 – 9 players – View hand 2405912
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

FriggjoBIG (MP2): BB = 4.8, t1428
RickPoker17 (CO): BB = 101.4, t30413
JulianoMAC (BTN): BB = 18.0, t5394
chambers-roy (SB): BB = 19.8, t5949
joaopestana8 (BB): BB = 32.6, t9779
F_ck3r0fm1nd (UTG): BB = 35.6, t10690
Hero (UTG+1): BB = 36.1, t10840
gebstotz (UTG+2): BB = 23.6, t7069
orlovline (MP1): BB = 65.0, t19498

Pre Flop: (t810) Hero is UTG+1 with J of hearts A of clubs
1 fold, Hero raises to t600, 6 folds, joaopestana8 calls t300

Flop: (t1710) T of diamonds 7 of hearts 5 of clubs (2 players)
joaopestana8 checks, Hero checks

Turn: (t1710) A of diamonds (2 players)
joaopestana8 checks, Hero bets t895, joaopestana8 calls t895

River: (t3500) J of diamonds (2 players)
joaopestana8 bets t2700

Chuck Blaze
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January 17, 2014 - 6:20 pm
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Without reads it tough I agree cause we aren't ahead of much here given the line this player took. We improved the turn/river but villain seems to have improved also and betting out on river is a line indicating he's strong. Not really the line with a bluff. A bad player could be worse here with A10, AQ, A5, A7. But I think a bad player also has diamonds here as well maybe a straight too. It seems to me that the turn was good for them and obviously the river.

I think we should be cbetting this flop here 100 % of the time. It helps defines the villain range a bit more and we are more likely to have an easier decisions through the hand.

icantmtt
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January 17, 2014 - 6:41 pm
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Why no Cbet?

Tough but fold river is best imo
Sets flushes and straights all beat us
Hard to see this being a bluff or worse 2p hand this early

daveyt86
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January 17, 2014 - 7:20 pm
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Ive seen ppl say that c-betting 100% of flops makes us exploitable!!
I didnt c-bet as i didnt think i could get better hands to fold, and i may get worse to call but not many.
Should i just always be c-betting the flop?

Chuck Blaze
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January 17, 2014 - 8:42 pm
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on the flop there is 1710 chips in the pot. At this point in the MTT i’m happy to win that amount. Its not about getting better to fold or worse to call for me in this spot.

markconkle
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January 18, 2014 - 12:22 am
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I also like cbetting the flop. Making him fold KQ is decently valuable.

I agree AT, A7, and A5 are very possible, as is TJ. I would call a smaller bet but I think you are beat too often here.

lapp3r30
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January 18, 2014 - 2:03 pm
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I also like cbetting the flop. Making him fold KQ is decently valuable.

Why do we want him to fold KQ on the flop?

michae1di11on
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January 18, 2014 - 4:08 pm
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Ive seen ppl say that c-betting 100% of flops makes us exploitable!!
I didnt c-bet as i didnt think i could get better hands to fold, and i may get worse to call but not many.
Should i just always be c-betting the flop?

Here’s two articles by Andrew Brokos that will help your c-betting dilemmas.

…..rotection/
…..tting-adv/

Also, there’s nothing wrong with being exploitable until opponents start exploiting you.

jacobsharktank
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January 18, 2014 - 5:30 pm
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Grunch

I hate not cbetting because unless the villain is paying attention and he’s not unless he’s good, he won’t know you’re cbetting an extraordinarily amount of completely blank boards heads up. He’s bb and has a wide flatting range, whether he’s good or he’s bad for a variety of reasons unless he’s right. I don’t know that cbetting is 100% better than checking back but I know this particular spot can’t play out when you Cbet. You’re still value vetting against a lot of his air and you don’t necessarily want to give that chunk of his range a free card anyway. Unless you have history and know he’s a reg who will exploit your cbetting tendencies, where you’re still ahead and don’t want to be rc bluffed, you should still Cbet. Pocket pairs are still having to uncomfortably check/something with under pairs for three streets. Top pairs will play probably slowly by villain because they don’t have good kickers. (I’m on my phone and can’t scroll up to see but I’m pretty sure it was t-high ya?)

jacobsharktank
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January 18, 2014 - 5:36 pm
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Also- don’t worry about playing in a manner that can be exploited if it’s going to work and the people you’re using it against aren’t going to exploit it. Those that can exploit you and are seeing this hand won’t really be able to exploit it because you will just adjust but you don’t have to play defensively when you (and they) will be read less.

Poking_Fun
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January 22, 2014 - 12:12 pm
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Agree a cbet here is mandatory in this spot.

I think there are plenty of draws that we get value from and small pairs that may fold on that flop. We can also set up to fire again with high cards J-A as we have AJ plus K/Q would be decent bluff cards here.

River is difficult as it has just nailed a whole load of draws that got there but there is still the possibility that villain is representing a strong hand and bluffing although his sizing really does look like he is trying to get value from AK etc. Probably a sigh fold although not a very easy one in a $10 tournament.

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