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January 29, 2014
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Hi guys,
hand from todays £330 deepstack at EPT London. Wanted to get a line check as I got completely lost after the action was a bit unexpected. This is in level 3 of the tourney. No concrete reads at this stage but the button has shown down some marginal hands. I have so far played 4 hands in 3 levels, and only showed down KJs which made 2 pair.
blinds are 100/200 25 ante. levels go up every 25 mins
effective stacks around 50bbs and we are 10 handed
I'm BB and am dealt AKo
HJ opens to 500
CO Calls
Button Calls
SB raises to 1675
After much thought, I call
HJ raises to 4975
CO folds
Button folds
SB folds
I fold
I'd be interested to know if you think we should be cold 4 betting there. My intention when I looked at my cards was to 3bet, then after the action went how it did, I felt I was 4bet folding to HJ and SB (the only 2 in the hand who I felt could have something). When HJ 4bets, I think he has a pretty narrow range especially given how tight I was playing, so the options to me are shove or fold. The only 'good' flop for me is QJT rainbow based on my assumption of his range.
As played, i think the fold is correct, but I'm really looking for advice on the flat/4bet spot.
Tyty in advance
Al
February 2, 2013
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Great question AIPike. I had a similar situation recently but I stupidly lost my 70bb stack. It was a local pub game and I called a raise and a reraise with AK clubs ( they looked lovely). I flopped an ace and lost my stack to a flopped set QQQ.
I am not good enough to be giving advice but I think you should have folded to the 3 bet. If the original raiser 4 bets do you want to play for stacks or are you going to fold? If he doesn't 4 bet, he might call given the great pot odds he is getting. Now you are in a 3 way pot where you won't win much more if an Ace or a King flops and your opponents can't beat that. But if they are ahead of an Ace on the flop, well then you are in trouble.
If you 4 bet with the idea of calling an all in or going all in yourself over a 5 bet, well then you are flipping at best.
If you 4 bet with the idea of folding to a 5 bet, you have turned your hand into a bluff.
I wish I had thought of all this last week myself. The only problem is that it is very hard to fold AK and in game I would probably play the hand the same way as you did. My mistake above was very clear cut as I could narrow the villians range down to AA, KK, QQ, JJ, 10 10, AK and maybe AQ. You obviously could not do this in your situation.
January 29, 2014
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I thought this morning that there might be a case for folding from the BB given the action so far, even if we think we’re flipping, is it reasonable to think the 4 players already in the pot could be holding Blockers l, and for that reason we bin the hand and move to the next case? I think it’s extremely nitty but its a possible line I guess?
October 4, 2014
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First, I think folding to the three bet is rarely the best play. I also understand the hesitation to ship(or raise) 50bb with Ace high pre. I think you played this fine. Don't try to convince yourself you should be folding AK with position just because you got pushed off the hand. I also think you showed discipline not tooling out with AK simply because you have 1675 in the middle.
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
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I'm not a fan of flat-calling a 3-bet with AKo with multiple players left to act, out of position. I think it's really bad in this particular spot.
I don't completely hate folding to the 4bet since HJ is never folding to your shove and his range is extremely strong now, but the SB's range for making the original 3bet is not exactly nutted. It's a reasonable spot for him to squeeze if he's fairly aggressive. I think this makes it a good spot for you to cold-4bet for value, since flatting and seeing a flop here is only going to get more difficult once more players behind you start calling, and the stack-to-pot ratio isn't great.
I would imagine your cold 4bet (to around 3500) would get a lot of folds, which we don't mind because we pick up a good pot without a showdown. It would also give you the freedom to be reasonably happy calling off for stacks against one of the two players with a lot of money in the pot, and reasonably happy folding if both players decided to get it all in.
Once you cold-4bet and there's 9-10k in the middle, you can't really fold to just a single player here. The fact that people are not often going to be herofolding QQ or AK in these spots in live tournaments means that it's very rare that you can give them credit for exclusively AA or KK, especially when you have blockers. The really obvious pot-committing 4bet from the HJ here is one instance where it's possible his range is only KK+, but even there, there are going to be players who see QQ or AK and just go nuts.
People seem to get very caught up in the idea of 'flipping at best'. Yes, sometimes you get it all in with AK and you flip. But if there's a bunch of dead money in the pot, flipping with AK is awesome. Sometimes you do run into the nuts, but it's all about what the player's range is. Saying things like 'flipping at best' ignores the mathematical reality that sometimes we get into spots where we know we're almost always behind, but getting it all-in is the right play anyway.
As for folding to the 3-bet…I don't like it. It might be better than flatting and playing a most likely 5-way pot with roughly 1 PSB behind, but I think it's very nitty. You'd need a solid read that the SB was extremely tight.
TL;DR – cold 4bet to around 3500 and call off vs one player's shove, fold vs two or more.
TPE Pro
December 30, 2013
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i would much prefer to see you either cold4 or just fold outright given this action. a perk of your 4bet is that you appear to seem very tight to the rest of your table, so cold-4betting might earn you credit for a hand stronger than AKo (which is always nice if we're trying to avoid flips from 99-TT/JJ). the downside is that with your stack size and the amount of action in front, you are going to have to call off when you 4bet (you might have flatted bc intuitively you knew this was true).
either way, i would not fault you. either of these two options are far superior to flatting here in my mind.
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