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Do you call a Check raise shove with QQ here?
Maniackid11
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September 9, 2018 - 3:57 pm
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WPN, $30 Buy-in (50/100 blinds, 10 ante) No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 8 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 4,779 (47.8 bb)
BB: 5,430 (54.3 bb)
UTG+2: 8,630 (86.3 bb)
MP1: 4,380 (43.8 bb)
MP2: 3,463 (34.6 bb)
Hero (MP3): 5,611 (56.1 bb)
CO: 5,103 (51 bb)
BTN: 12,101 (121 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with Q Q
UTG+2 raises to 300, 2 folds, Hero raises to 911, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls 611

Flop: (2,052) K T Q (2 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets 1,026, UTG+2 raises to 7,709 and is all-in, Hero calls 3,664 and is all-in

Turn: (11,432) K (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: (11,432) 5 (2 players, 2 are all-in)

Results: 11,432 pot
Final Board: K T Q K 5
UTG+2 showed A J and lost (-5,611 net)
Hero showed Q Q and won 11,432 (5,821 net)

Maniackid11
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September 9, 2018 - 4:01 pm
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Seems like it’s just barely break even here against his exact hand, so I guess against his range it’s +Ev?

3for3
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September 12, 2018 - 12:33 pm
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I think you answered your own question, but here is another way to think about it.  If you have a call vs the nuts, how can you ever fold?  The only hand you should fold vs is KK, and that usually gets 4 bet pre.

Maniackid11
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September 12, 2018 - 3:12 pm
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I see what you mean, thanks 3for3.

DuckinDaDeck
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September 12, 2018 - 3:57 pm
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I think its very rare that we want to fold a set on the flop. I would say never, but if you’re >150bb deep with bottom set there might be some situations where you want to fold to a shove (maybe). Aside from very rare set over sets, you’re always going to have decent equity against the very top of villain’s range. Many players fall in love with two pair on the flop, and you generally don’t want to fold when you’re crushing a good portion of villain’s value range.

Turns are a lot different, and there are spots where sets can find a fold. Still pretty rare but, at least in multi-way pots, when someone shows a lot of strength and there’s an obvious nutty hand on board, you often won’t be getting the right price vs. too much of their range to justify a call. I once folded KK on KQ5 T rainbow (on a short-handed final table) where 4 people saw the turn, and I’m pretty confident that it was the right play. Still, the fact that I remember that hand 2 years later should illustrate that we don’t want to be doing that often.

Maniackid11
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September 12, 2018 - 6:37 pm
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 Wow, that’s a really tough fold to make. Idk if i’d be skilled enough to make that fold. not yet anyways. eventually though.

DuckinDaDeck
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September 12, 2018 - 7:01 pm
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That hand is one of the few times that I felt rushed to make a decision as my 100+ second timebank was running out. It’s very possible that I made a bad fold, but I think I would do it again in the same spot against that type of player.

One thing I didn’t think to mention. On flops with three broadway cards, I’m not always looking to play a big pot with sets. Not looking to fold, but I’ll occasionally pot control the turn if 2 bets go in on the flop. Two pair is often going to consider folding once the fourth bet goes in (ie. either flop or turn gets raised and a bet on every street). There aren’t a ton of combos that, for example, JJ on AKJxx is beating if two pair isn’t always paying off.

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